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recovery sort of is a podcast where we
discuss the recovery and addiction
topics from the perspective of people
living in long-term recovery this
podcast does not intend to represent the
views of any particular group
organization or fellowship the views
expressed here are solely the opinion of
its contributors be advised there may be
strong language or topics of an adult
nature alright here we are again on the
podcast I’m here with Billy this is
Jason we’re here to talk about some kind
of recovery related topics which you
already know if you found us here so
this this week we decided we both had
some kind of issue happen at our work
and so we thought we would talk about
you know dealing with spiritual
principles or not spiritual principles
in a work environment and how that looks
and how it affects us and maybe some
ways we found to deal with it I think
Billy told me to go first so I will
relate my story I’m at a a new position
that’s not entirely a work position
right now I’m in college this is more of
a field placement or an internship if
you’ve never heard field placement
before and so I’m you know learning my
craft and I go in weekly to a supervisor
you know for a supervision meeting and
we we go over aspects of the job things
I’m you know struggling with areas I
have questions about and so this week I
went in and I was like hey do you want
to talk about this and my supervisor
said now I actually have something
specific I wanted to talk about if you
could just set your stuff to the side
for a minute and that it was like oh oh
okay this might be something serious
what’s going on right and she said hey
it’s uh it’s come to my attention you’ve
been vaping in the bathroom
and I’m like oh [ __ ] like I have right I
have and so in my field placement I see
I see clients and generally my preferred
thing is to go outside to vape because
I don’t want to feel guilty and I don’t
want to have anybody see the vape you
know vapor in the bathroom and I just
want to be able to freely do it and I
feel like I can do that outside best but
when my clients are back to back and I
don’t really have time to go outside
and I also have thought I don’t really
want to go outside and catch one client
leaving or another one coming and have
them see me vaping honestly I don’t like
what they may decide that means about me
and so I was taking the liberty and and
maybe the entitled attitude of I’ll just
do this in the bathroom right I had done
it a few times I didn’t particularly
notice any vapor and lingering in the
air didn’t think it was a big deal and
so I had just continued that practice so
my supervisor brings this up and points
it out and and it [ __ ] me up I was
right because and I explained this to
her I’m like I carry myself really
professionally and this does not look
like that really professional self that
I carry myself as I felt an immediate
sense of some shame and it really it had
me pretty close to tears in her office
just to be caught doing something that’s
not right because most of the time I
live in a manner that I do act
to the rules and I I do know with vaping
that’s one area I really don’t you know
I went to Disney World I vape then every
[ __ ] bathroom I walk I don’t give a
[ __ ] right like [ __ ] y’all people who
don’t like it look if I walked into a
bathroom full of cigarette smoke that’s
kind of repulsive right if I walk in to
smell cotton candy and Donuts I’m like
ah that’s nice so I’m like [ __ ] it
nobody cares I’m just gonna do it but it
it really hurt my feelings to be pointed
out about this this vaping in the
bathroom at work and and so I left there
that day feeling pretty rough about it
and one of the things I did come to on
the way home I guess some sort of coping
skill one I was able to remind myself of
all the things I do well at my field
placement right I do a whole lot of
stuff right I follow a lot of it
struction and so I got a look at the
whole picture not just this one thing
that was pointed out that wasn’t that
wasn’t well so that was a little
relieving but more relieving was this
concept of I left work that day looking
at this conversation about me vaping in
the bathroom as a you know air quotes
bad things because that’s how I like to
judge everything it’s good or bad right
we like to value every you know
circumstance that happens in our lives
and so that’s what I did I so this is a
bad thing but I’m driving home and I’m
like what action can I take from this
moment inspired by this so-called bad
thing that will have me one day look
back at it and say damn that’s one of
the best days that ever happened to me
because of that moment this great thing
came out of it so now that’s not a bad
moment that is actually a great moment
in the history of my life right and this
concept really intrigued me and so I
thought about it and I came up with some
things one thing I’ve been thinking
about going back to therapy so maybe
this moment could be the inspiration
that actually sends me back to therapy
like the driving force that truly makes
the decision hey I need to make an
appointment and go see somebody and talk
about some stuff right that would be
positive even more positive I believe
would be if I use this moment to quit
vaping right I could look back in the
sea in a year and say oh [ __ ] that
moment didn’t feel so good in the in the
moment of it but it actually inspired me
to quit vaping and now I don’t do that
anymore and a have it for nine months or
something and that’s incredible that’s
actually a really good thing that
happened to my life and you know that’s
somewhat on my mind I’m thinking about
doing that in the next week or two
because I there are some other aspects
of vaping that do kind of bother me just
the fact that I don’t want to be seen
outside by people because I’m wondering
what they’ll think of me obviously means
I don’t like what it means about me to
do it but I really got caught up in the
concept of wow I can look at any bad
situation in my life and I can if I take
it and use it to inspire
something that makes it a good situation
later that’s a pretty incredible
perspective to have and a good take on
life like I can turn any negative into a
using that theory right it’s what I do
after that situation not so much what
happens in that situation that matters
for my life and I just I thought that
was really weird so I wanted to talk
about yeah that’s one of those concepts
I’ve tried to apply to my using and my
addiction you know the active addiction
part of my life a lot of times like I’ve
used that as a motivational type thing
for myself and for other people like I
you know used to do these behaviors I
was this way I ended up you know in jail
I was a criminal I was a criminal and a
thief and a liar and all these things in
you know because of the results of those
consequences I made different choices in
my life and and now you know those
things I don’t want to say they are a
positive but I use them as part of a
positive example of you know to connect
with people to say you can overcome
these things too I’ve been in this spot
I was able to do some things and make my
life different and now when you look at
my life now it doesn’t look anything
like that guy you know hungry go out and
coach Little League and you know have a
job and own a home and you know people
that meet me in the community or at my
kids school don’t see a drug addict you
alcoholic criminal they see something
different and so people you know trying
to get out of addiction it can you can
use that as a very positive example that
negative experience I thought of two
things why you were talking about that
one of them was humility and you know
what sort of that principle of
humilities become so big for me in my
life it’s not just about you know that
the being humble part you know the
taking responsibility and those things
like that’s great too
but like look honestly at how you feel
about vaping I mean as you mentioned
obviously you have some sort of feeling
about it if you think people are judging
you or looking
you a certain away there’s something in
you that is telling you you don’t like
that about yourself you know if there’s
you know to me if I’m doing something
that I have guilt shame embarrassment
you know something about I should really
take a look at it and and own it you
know I would say hey this is a habit
that I have that I’m not proud of
because only from that you know we we
take that and we build on that to change
I think the to me and your you know
story they’re like I thought of just
what’s amazing is our ability or you
know I like to think that I would do the
same thing is our ability today to go in
and just take ownership of it and be
like yeah I was you know I made a
mistake I’m sorry like those things in
life are so uncommon and I mean that
outside of attics outside of you know
just people in recovery like just in
life in general like in dealing with
people at work all the time like people
take an ownership of mistakes and just
saying hey I’m sorry I made a mistake
most of the time at least it feels like
most of the time at my job people want
to point fingers and blame and make
excuses you know well this person said
or that person told me or someone else
said or these guys were doing it you
hear all that stuff and it’s so rare to
just hear someone go yeah I you know
you’re right I’m sorry I made a mistake
I won’t do it again
and then have the integrity to follow
through on that and not turn around and
do it again not just say it because it
sounds good and it’s gonna get you out
of the jam but to actually follow
through with some integrity and be like
yeah I’m not gonna do that anymore
you know and I think of me and addiction
like I remember being a person that
always thought you know that the rules
were stupid like I’ve always and I still
think drug laws are stupid and drug
prohibition is stupid for different
reasons but you know I always thought
there really isn’t all this danger in
smoking pot why do they get to make this
rule that makes it illegal to smoke pot
I could smoke pot and I’m not hurting
anybody and I’m not doing anything wrong
and what I failed to realize is if I
don’t make the rules
I can go against them but I have to
suffer the consequences of going against
them so this is your consequence for
ignoring a rule and you know it’s again
for me in recovery it’s know and like
hey I make mistakes I you know screw
things up all the time and the the best
thing I can do in most of those
situations is really just own it you
know really just take take
responsibility sit with it like hey this
doesn’t feel good you know maybe I don’t
want to do this again because it doesn’t
feel good let me let me sit and really
feel this instead of trying to
rationalize and justify our way out of
it you know yeah it’s great that you can
take it and turn it into a positive
thing but sit and feel that shame for a
minute because you did ignore a rule did
it do something like that and then
ignore what they asked you to do and you
make a couple of good points in there
one thank God for the integrity today as
before if you’d have caught me it was
like you don’t have me on camera I
didn’t do that and another one you bring
up a difficult thing for me is doing
things that I know maybe the majority of
society doesn’t agree with and being
okay with that because I believe it’s
like I generally don’t think there’s
anything wrong with vaping maybe it’s
not what I want to do and maybe vaping
is not the best example of this but
there are things that I’m just not in
agreement with the majority of society
with and it’s still difficult for me to
act on it and know I’m going to be
judged for it so that I feel like I get
the point you’re making that if I’m
worried about what people think of it
maybe I shouldn’t do it but I think
there’s also a line of things that I
like to live in I still am concerned
about how people view me though Hoover
it yeah and so two things about well
first of all vaping and then something
along this similar line so I am NOT a
person I don’t vape my wife does and I
am NOT sold that it’s completely
harmless and safe and none of it matters
not only that but even like the
second-hand vaping stuff I mean so and I
don’t know I’m not overly paranoid about
it but I don’t want to walk into a
bathroom full of vaping cloud of
whatever freaking chemicals that are in
that [ __ ] that make it smell like cotton
cane you know what I mean like I don’t
know what the [ __ ] that is and I’m not
agreeing to put that in my body so I
shouldn’t have to deal with that that’s
the second thing was similar at my job
this week a guy brought up to me that I
tend to curse a lot
at work and that I tend to take the
Lord’s name in vain and that to him was
offensive he’s a religious guy and he
finds it a little bit offensive that I
say god damn it a lot and he wasn’t
bringing it up in like an overly like
attacking what he’s I get along with him
really well and he actually felt
comfortable enough to kind of say it to
me in just a conversation yes and I
didn’t take it like offensively like I
just listened to him and of course I
don’t necessarily agree with his
viewpoints right um but at the end of
the day you know once I went once I got
past the initial like defensiveness and
I didn’t get defensive with him but
immediately in my head I want to be
defensive and I want to dismiss
everything that he just said by saying
well I don’t agree with your God and I
don’t agree with your rules that your
God set for you that’s your stuff I
shouldn’t have to live my life according
to that and that’s how I felt what I’ve
learned in recovery is don’t always say
what you feel right away in the moment
just sit with it so I kind of said yeah
I hear you I get it
you know I’ll try you know whatever Mike
said whatever I said yeah I get stressed
and I tend to curse a lot and I don’t
you know cuz anything made another
comment and this one I did take a little
bit offensive and I did kind of make a
snarky comment back but he said you know
and I just he’s like I wonder if you
like talk like that at home around your
children and I thought oh you know so
what if I do and I just said well I just
said I’ll match my kids up against
anybody else’s kid
anytime my kids are great kids they’re
caring and compassionate children they I
mean everyone that meets our kids you
know give us compliments on what good
kids they are if they’re I don’t believe
exposing them to a little bit of cussing
is what makes your kids good or bad you
know I don’t think if my kid says
goddamn it that makes them a bad kid you
know your kid cannot say goddamn it and
then go push a kid off the swing set you
know and I mean like I I judge my kids
and a different standards than that and
I’m okay with my kids and if they curse
a little bit I don’t really care because
I don’t care for myself anyway but
sitting with all that so I went home and
I kind of thought about it for a little
bit and I thought the truth is you know
back to that thing was I I don’t know
that it’s I care so much about how other
people see me but I care about how my
actions affect other people around me
and if my cussin are saying goddamnit
around him makes him uncomfortable or
uneasy is it really that hard for me to
try to stop is it really that kind of
big of a deal for me to just be
courteous to him in that way and I don’t
have to go in and tell them well I kind
of did we made a little bit of a joke of
it the next day so I went in and put one
of those cuffs jars on my desk and I
lined up like six quarters you know cuz
I knew it was gonna happen in the day
and I said here you go you know I’ll
keep this cuss jar here now and try to
keep me from customers like a joke but
it was it was mental I did that for two
reasons wanted to make a little bit of
light of the whole situation because I
don’t want him to feel I like the guy we
get along great but to to show him like
I did hear what he said and that what he
said mattered and that you know I would
just tried I would make an effort you
know no promises I’m gonna make an
effort so at least today I’m making an
effort to try to live by someone else’s
rules that I don’t even agree with but
just because it makes them a little more
comfortable funnily enough I have a
teacher that tried to work on not
cussing a
much and I guess apparently she used to
say for the love of God all the time and
so every time she messes something up in
class or it doesn’t go right she says
for the love of Billy is hilarious
because you’re Billy but it’s striking
to you know to hear something different
right it sounds very weird when she says
it even though we’ve gotten used to it
now in class but I guess replacing a
word I’m with you it’s just hard to be
judged by something I don’t believe in
it’s hard like I can’t live up to
everybody standards of doing the right
thing I’m gonna end up offending some
people but I do think it’s awesome that
you know in general I think both of us
do care about not offending people we
don’t try to on purpose and really one
of the things you pointed out that he
was comfortable enough to come talk to
you about it really says something about
your character as well because it’s easy
to realize people in my life who I would
approach with you know something that
might possibly be annoying me and then
there’s also people I’m like I’m not
gonna [ __ ] waste my time I know who
they are they’re not going to be
receptive to that and yeah so what I
initially you talked about living our
life by other people’s rules and I think
the fine line difference there is so I
don’t feel guilty about cussing because
it offends him and I am probably not
gonna stop saying it in ghent like I’m
not gonna try to live my overall life I
mean I’m always subject to adjusted
behaviors based on how it affects people
around me but like I know it doesn’t
offend my wife I don’t think it offends
you I don’t think it offends most of the
people that I hang around so it’s
probably not a behavior that I’m gonna
like be like oh my I need to look I
almost set it there I said oh my god oh
my god now Marty if I’m already changing
my baby
so I guess the difference is I don’t
feel guilty about doing that it’s not a
behavior that I go oh man I have to
change the whole way I’m living it’s
like I care about the way my actions
affect people around me and it affects
him in whatever negative
way and that is important to me you know
it’s it’s a you know I think of that you
know twelve-step kind of thing like you
know I I want to practice these
principles in all my affairs well I want
to be a loving caring and compassionate
person in my life so I try to do that in
all areas where I can I’m definitely
gonna fall short of his religious God’s
rules Pat work that’s gonna happen I’m
sure it’s gonna happen um and I’m not
gonna feel guilty about it when it
happens I’m just gonna try to do what
little things I can to to maybe make him
a little more comfortable or make the
environment a little more you know
easier and I don’t think it’s that big
of a you know big of a deal
recently I had a similar sort of
conversation with my wife and with some
people at work which is why I was
talking to my wife about it so people at
my job tend to take this persona with
customers we do a lot of customer
service customer relations and it’s
always this attitude of like well I’m
nice to the people that are nice to me
and I’m rude to the people that are rude
to me and I try to get across to them a
principle that I learned in recovery is
that I try to be nice to everyone no
matter how they treat me I want to live
by the morals and values that are
important to me because of who I am not
because of how other people treat me and
if someone on the phone is upset and
yelling and screaming you know I don’t
feel better myself personally by yelling
and screaming back at him I don’t feel
better by getting into a big argument
over whatever someone’s bill or what
they were charged or whatever I don’t
feel better by winning that argument and
being right you know when I go home at
night and this is just me I go home at
night I lay down I bet and I think about
it and I think man how could I have done
this better you know how could I have
handled that in a way that brought them
some peace that made them feel you know
appreciated like their concerns were
addressed in a you know healthy manner
and most people don’t live that way you
know most people were like well you’re
rude to me so I could be rude back to
you you ignore me so I can ignore you
and I think in recovery I’ve learned
that that’s not the person I want to be
you know I want to be someone who’s kind
to the rudest person right ya know and
you’re touching on something that I I
actually find hugely important to I feel
like people live the golden rule in
Reverse instead of treat others the way
you want to be treated I hear it as I’ll
treat them how they treat me because
that’s actually their application of the
golden right and it just seems so
ass-backwards right and I try to teach
my kids this so look I’m not a a
Christian I don’t claim to be I don’t
claim to believe in the Bible but I love
a lot of the different Bible verses
about Jesus in general I don’t know why
they just they’re touching stories to me
that I talk about frequently for
whatever reason one of my favorites that
I try to teach my kids about all the
time because they’re you know 14 now and
there’s gangs of friends and they hate
each other one day and love each other
the next and I’m like listen you know
you’re not gonna understand this in
Jesus terms but he said even the tax
collectors are nice to their friends
right and the point was the tax
collectors were supposedly mean evil
people that you know are taking your
money and didn’t care about you and he’s
like look even these terrible people
even these murderers and rapists
basically are nice to their friends
right they’re just murdering and raping
other people that they don’t like right
being nice to your friends is no big
[ __ ] accomplishment right being nice
to people that who are nice to you or do
something for you is no huge
accomplishment to brag about everybody
is what about being nice to people that
aren’t nice to you right that’s really
saying something about your character
and I try to show them the importance of
that cuz it I’m gonna agreement with you
like it doesn’t [ __ ] mean anything
that I’m nice to somebody who’s giving
me money to be nice to him right it
means something when I’m still nice to
somebody who’s taking money from me when
I’m still nice to somebody who’s
treating me badly like and that doesn’t
mean I don’t need to have healthy
boundaries and remove myself from
situations if they’re not healthy for me
right I’m not saying that but I should
always try to live my morals and values
of treating people good not just to
those who are
to me that that doesn’t really take a
lot of effort right I want to live a
life that might take a little more
effort but means more to me right and to
me that is the definition of integrity
you know I live the values that I
believe in to the best of my ability in
spite of the circumstance in spite of
the situation right and it’s not easy
it’s difficult you know I don’t like to
yell at my children I don’t like to
raise my voice and get into arguments
with them I do it but you know that’s
not the person that I want to be and a
lot of times just taking ownership of
that and and recognizing like I acted
this way I don’t like the way that that
makes me feel later means maybe I need
to look at that and change it a little
bit maybe there’s something I need to
change about myself that awakening of my
spirit that awakening of my conscious
that happened in recovery you know
allows me to be willing to do that I
didn’t have that when I was using it was
like well I’m just gonna do whatever I
got to do to get what I need to get and
I’ll justify or rationalize it later
just so that I can keep getting what I
need and doing what I do and you know
Recovery’s taught me that that’s the
kind of stuff that keeps me awake at
night you know that’s the kind of
reasons that I feel guilt and shame and
embarrassment and remorse and living the
other way like living with integrity and
living by principles and values that I
think are important is what gives me
personal pride or you know gives me you
know where they call that dog I can’t
think of that a name but it makes me
feel good about the person that I am
today right and you know my values are
always sort of I’ll say up for revision
like I’m always willing to look at them
and willing to see if they need tweaked
or adjusted based on situations and
circumstances in life and certain things
have been flowed and changed but certain
ones are always there I always want to
strive to be honest I always want to
strive to be kind and curve
and compassionate towards other people I
always want to have you know empathy and
you know just be a good what I consider
a good morally good person yeah this
ties in you know treating people who
aren’t nice to you as well
treating them well I think ties in a lot
to that just the concept of what am i
doing when nobody’s looking right right
like yeah it’s easy to do the right
thing in front of an audience but what
am i doing when nobody’s looking and
like this week I could obviously say I’m
vaping in the bathroom when nobody’s
looking right but that’s not all I’m
doing I’m also like a lot of times when
nobody’s watching I’m doing the right
thing just because it’s right for me
it’s not about who sees it who knows
about it it’s just what makes me like
you said sleep well at night it allows
me to lay down and not run through all
the things I did wrong or feel guilty
and then the flip side of that is
there’s no reason to beat yourself up
about it or make you feel self feel
horrible or anything else it’s like hey
man I did this I you know it was sort of
whatever however you choose to look at
I’m gonna throw some words out there I
don’t mean to place my judgments on you
but you know I don’t mean to be you know
careless or disrespectful or you know
whatever you feel about that but you
know recognizing that I made a mistake
I’m gonna take responsibility for it you
know and then having actions that go
along with that decision like that’s why
I think I can live guilt-free today
because I don’t just do things make
excuses and move on and keep doing them
you know it’s it’s I hear when people
are telling me that I’ve done something
wrong I hear when people say that I’ve
caused some kind of harm and I’m willing
to own it and say yeah you know what
maybe you’re right
maybe there’s some things I can do
differently yeah and not not to take
this in the direction of vaping but I
have never ever once thought that vaping
was providing me with a good source of
vitamin A and vitamin E for my daily use
it was more the fact that I smoked for
21 years and vaping gave me the freedom
to put cigarettes down now look my old
sponsor will tell you that vaping is
suboxone for cigarettes and I can’t
argue that I was gonna yell harm
reduction our Murdoch right I I do think
there’s less chemicals in bay
I’m hoping that it’s way better than
cigarettes for me I don’t really know
that by any means I’m just kind of
hoping some of the science seems to
point that direction that it’s it’s
better than smoking and so I like that
idea but it’s been four and a half years
of doing it maybe it would be nice to
not have it right and so it it’s
something I do want to look at and I’m
interested in considering and if this
can be the thing that inspires it then
awesome yeah and I will I’ll say like
with my wife I am ten times happier that
she beeps then that she smoked
cigarettes she’s smug and she smoked for
a long time and was on and off trying to
quit and really struggled and she
finally quit it’s been several years and
she’s vaped
and I am happier about that than
anything um I would love her to stop
just for the financial reasons and
things but you know I’ll take it as a
win yeah yeah definitely alright and uh
I guess that’s all we got about that
portion of it we’ll take a little break
here for some advertising that we
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they had a very negative attitude
towards customers towards the other
employees who they were supervisors of
their things that we had talked to them
about several times we’ve sat down with
the person
you know my bosses and I and her
supervisors and had sat down and kind of
said hey these are some issues we need
you to address we need you to look at
them we we don’t want to hear them we
don’t want to see them and they
continued you know and and just you know
earlier this week again it was like a
comment about someone she supervises she
actually sent a text message to her boss
who was you know the next level up and
told him that this guy is making my life
difficult so I am going to make his life
a living hell
and you know to like if that’s the
attitude you have about the people that
are working under you like you should
not be supervising people to me in that
way like you know the attitude as a as a
company overall we’re small family-owned
business it’s not some huge corporation
thing it’s you know 20 people however
many people and you know it’s it’s try
to create like a family atmosphere we’re
all working together we don’t have
really specific titles there’s not you
know a bunch of over overly descriptive
job titles you know it’s sort of we all
pitch in to help each other to do what
we can to provide the best services and
she wasn’t fitting into that so we had
to let her go and the difficulty was I’d
went to my boss so a week or so ago and
sat down with him one on one and said
hey look here’s what’s going on with
this person with a different employee
she had different issues with a
different guy that she was supervising
who had made similar claims but we
didn’t know for we didn’t have the
in-text writing I’m gonna make his life
hell but he had made these claims that
she does these things to me on purpose
she does these things that you know
caused me difficulty in my day and if
I’m gonna have to probably quit I’m
gonna have to find another job and this
person had been with the company for 20
years yeah so I went to my boss and I
said for those reasons plus some other
reasons I think we should let her go and
he said no I want to give her one more
chance maybe we’ll take down some things
that she still said I’ll talk to her one
more time we were one more opportunity
so I said okay I’d been compiling my
list the other supervisor who I’ll say
is like kind of parallel to me and a
different facet of the company he’s the
one that she sent the text to him and I
started talking and both of us felt like
one more you know how many one more
chances is one more chance and so we had
to get in essence I’m making this a long
version if we had to go in and tell my
boss and so we had to go into my depth
to the you know false of the company and
say hey look you know we don’t think one
more chance is good we think she needs
to go that’s really difficult you know
because I’m a person that fully accepts
responsibility for this person is gonna
lose their ability not their ability
they can go out and get another job but
they are they have to go now and find a
new job they’re gonna be unemployed
problems it’s gonna be you know really a
negative you know experience for them
and you know that sense of feeling
directly responsible for that in a way
was difficult you know and I’ve wrestled
with it for a while I guess it’s I
wrestled I’ve struggled to go in the
first time and tell him I didn’t really
think she should be there so then to be
in this position again and then so I was
there when the conversation happened
with her about letting her go and she
cried and you know this is the best job
I’ve ever had and you know those kind of
things and it was just it was morally
really difficult it’s like you’re trying
to you know do your job to the best that
you can to look out for the good of you
know the company as a whole to look out
for the good of everyone else around and
yet you’re still directly responsible
for causing this you know in essence I’m
gonna use the word harm to someone
else’s life and it’s that was just
really challenging morally no I can
absolutely see why that would be
challenging and uh I noticed you kind of
ignored my Christmas comment but I
didn’t know if that was uh you didn’t
like that idea or not but it kind of it
kind of brings up an idea for me maybe a
little off the topic of what you’re
saying but
if you do feel you need to let someone
go is there a better time to do that
like would it be better to let someone
go in January after the holidays I know
Christmas is a large expense for a lot
of people not everybody because not
everybody believes in Christmas or that
festive holiday season of some sort but
it is a large expense for a lot of
people especially with children and even
even more than that I don’t even know
that it matters I think most people live
in a credit and debt world so they’re
probably in debt in January as much as
they are in November right it might not
even make a difference but I was just
curious do you think that makes a
difference at all to me personally no I
I don’t think it makes a difference at
all that’s what I was gonna kind of ask
you a question of like do you feel like
your employer is responsible for the
quality of your Christmas or your
holidays or maybe birthdays or your kids
birthday you know like no I don’t I
don’t necessarily think that they’re
responsible I do think like say this is
a company I’ve been at for five years
and they feel like they might need to
let me go for whatever reason whether
it’s something I’m doing the positions
just coming to its lack of usefulness
I do think it might be nicer after the
holiday season before the holiday
seasons sake like I can feel like I
could enjoy the holiday season a little
more feeling secure at my job but then I
mean really once you do it in January
I’m gonna be like depressed at least
until spring hits anyway so yeah it’s
weird it’s better I try as best I can
it’s a little bit of a blurry line I try
to really separate out my you know job
life from my home life I used to mix
those up a lot you know for lots of
reasons it always to be one big blurry
line and it caused issues with my wife
at home when I would bring issues from
work home to her and then I just want to
talk to her about all my work issues and
not issues with our family or with us
and then on the flip side I am
personally you know friends with my boss
the owner of the company
we are good personal friends outside of
work so in order to try to maintain the
most professional atmosphere I can you
know I think both of us try to maintain
a different line there I think it keeps
it easier it selects say we’re still
friends we still get along and joke and
laugh with each other we have a lot in
common so I try to look at work is to me
is like a almost like a contractual or a
business obligation like I have with a
bank you know or like my mortgage holder
like my mortgage holder owes me nothing
other than to make sure that if I make
my payment on time I stay in my house
when I’m supposed to you know and they
pay the things that they’re supposed to
pay whatever that they can’t come kick
me out of my house because I’ve paid
them when I’m supposed to pay them like
those that’s the agreement we have so
that’s what I get and I feel like my
employer is the same way I agree to come
in and give you X amount of time for X
amount of work and because I tend to be
a person of integrity I want to uphold
my end of that bargain to the best of my
ability and I expect to get my paycheck
at the end of each week for the amount
of agreed-upon money and short of that
they don’t personally owe me anything if
they want to give me something great but
to have an expectation on that I don’t
feel like it’s fair to your employer can
I bring up something about you
personally that I okay okay yeah
anything whatsoever like that I just I
think you had explained to me that when
you came back from you know tour in the
US and your awesome experience there
that your position had been filled but
your boss kind of took you back going
not that you weren’t going to be a
useful employee he was already aware of
that but it felt like the way you
described it it was kind of somewhat of
a personal favor in a way and I feel
like your lines of profession might be a
little more blurred than a lot of
people’s I do agree a business
relationship is very much a contract of
you perform this duty and we pay you for
that I just wonder if that I don’t know
maybe I heard that wrong
we were talking about that before yes so
I would say the answer to your question
is no I don’t think he did it as a
personal favor like it wasn’t a personal
favor it was we are friends but I
definitely believe maybe this sounds
arrogant but I definitely believe I
bring a lot to the table
and he knows what my value is for
working for him and his company and I
kind of actually when I talked to him
about this because we had a couple
conversations about this before it
happened what I didn’t want to do is go
not talk to him first take a job and go
work for someone else and then him to be
like upset of like why don’t you come
talk to me about a job like why would
you not come back here and work was it
something I did did you not like working
for me or something like that um and
again I don’t feel like like I’m not
gonna say I was doing him any personal
favor in that I greatly respect him and
if anything else I will say this so I
got my job early in recovery I feel like
he took a chance on me when because I
had a criminal record and I had some
things and I had been clean a little
over a year um but I had some stuff in
my criminal history that could make me
unemployable to a lot of places and he
took a risk took a chance was willing to
take that risk and so I have always
looked at that you know as sort of a
personal I owe him personally right for
taking that risk but I’ve been there 19
years now and so I feel like I’ve I’ve
paid that back I’ve given a lot you know
I take a lot of personal responsibility
for my job and will say that I’ve been
with the company a long time so I I try
to treat it as if it were my own I
wasn’t trying to attack your ability I
definitely think you know I’m sure you
showed him over time how work that you
were to have on board I just I guess I
felt like when you described it to me
before it was he had already filled your
position with some other people and so
maybe the money wasn’t necessarily there
yeah definitely we need him to fill this
position it was more of a oh [ __ ] he’s
back in town we got to bring him back on
board we’ll figure out something for him
right away and so much we’re hiring you
back for what you used to do it’s like
you know what I really want him here
we’re gonna find work for a position for
him instead of so much we need this
position filled we’ll bring him in
fourth right so I don’t know I just
didn’t know if that changed I feel like
that changes the personal professional
dynamics slightly I don’t know if it
really does I think it might but I don’t
perceive it that you know I kind of look
at it as the you know if for whatever
reason I’ll use a football analogy you
know if the Ravens tomorrow decided oh
you know Lamar Jackson isn’t the
direction we want to go we’re gonna cut
him loose and some other team went out
went we don’t really need a quarterback
but [ __ ] it we’re gonna hire him because
goddamn is good and we don’t want them
to go away you know here’s the
opportunity to grab them we’re gonna
grab them and we’re gonna use you know
pay them and stick them on the bench and
we’ll figure out what we want to do with
them at whatever time but we’re not just
gonna let them get away
right I’d say that sounds awful arrogant
of me to say you know put myself in that
situation but that’s kind of how I
looked at it was like you know I feel
like I’m a good employee I show up I
don’t miss a lot of time I put a lot
into my job and take a lot of pride all
these are recovery skills by the way
things I learned in here of you know in
in meetings and through recovery of how
to be a good employee you know I think I
bring those to the table just don’t be
surprised next week when I introduce the
podcast is Jason and Lamar Jackson even
more arrogant of me to compare myself to
you know some would say the best
quarterback in the game at this moment
you know like I’m the best employee in
the world at this moment that’s you know
I didn’t mean that was just a comparison
because I’m a big Ravens fan so I’m
really familiar with I guess more back
to the topic of having to be a part of
letting someone go I can’t imagine
that’s a difficult thing to do any time
of year you know yeah I point out that
it’s Christmas any time of year this is
somebody who
who has been financially you know helped
by this institution they’re counting on
it they’re relying on it they’ve you
know occurred bills and debt based on
the fact that they can pay it back
because of this position and whether
through their own doing or not of you
know ability or attitude on the job
nobody wants to hurt people right nobody
well I don’t say nobody people like you
and I are not intent on hurting anyone
and so I do think it’s hard to do the
right thing sometimes you know if
they’re not a good fit for the company
you can’t keep them just because you
don’t want to hurt them correct right I
don’t know I think that brings up a good
question of and and maybe a good
statement somebody I heard somewhere
along the way and I’ve held on to it
said you know the right thing is often
the harder thing to do in any given
situation and I tend to believe that I
don’t know that I’ve thought fully
through it where there’s you know maybe
there’s an exception to that rule like
there is to all rules but it does seem
like the right thing to do is frequently
more difficult right the right thing to
do when I’m sitting at home is probably
to do the dishes and that’s more
difficult than sitting on my ass
watching football the right thing to do
in the situation you were just in was to
you know live with those tough feelings
but not have an employee at your job
that’s spreading negativity yeah and I
really tried to make sure and I really
look at you know the motivations behind
letting them go you know what what are
the reasons is are they personal reasons
is it because I don’t like them
personally or they be you know because
of things like that
were they really like legitimate like
yeah this is this is bad for everyone
and I felt like in this case you know it
wasn’t which is why I don’t feel guilty
about it like it wasn’t personal
decisions there was no personality in my
decision-making on the thing it was you
know it was actively causing harm to
other people at the business and
customers and you know our business it
it was not just well she you know
doesn’t do this right or that right it
was actively causing damage and this
wasn’t the first time a trainee
described that this was you know a
frequent thing you just now you had a
very positive exhibit a to you know show
to the court I guess you know the the
statement I just made kind of make me
think here for a second I was gonna ask
people for instances where the right
thing was not the harder thing and then
it occurred to me that maybe for people
like us or maybe people in general I’m
not sure I can’t think like Earthlings
but maybe
the harder thing is only harder because
it’s the right thing right so I thought
of this this situation shout out to my
persons with gambling addiction on
Twitter because there’s quite a [ __ ]
few gambling addicts apparently I have
no idea but someone could easily say the
easier thing to do on a Monday morning
is to not walk down to the bookie in
place a bit right the harder thing would
be to get out of your house go down to
the bookies in place the bet so the
easier thing is just to sit home and not
bet and yet I guarantee if you has any
person that has struggled with gambling
addiction it’s the harder thing yeah a
home in that place the best yeah I can’t
really say it’s harder in the physical
sense of more actual work but it’s just
harder because it’s harder for us yeah
not doing what you got to do to get
heroin or injecting heroin isn’t easier
think it’s easier to not do that I don’t
harder easier and those you know fables
or whatever you call them it’s to me I
look at the old recovery saying and I
didn’t get this for the longest time I
don’t think you know probably till I had
10 years or so it was the idea that
first thought wrong you know to me so
many times still it’s you know still
true it’s like my gut reaction or first
reaction to most situations is not the
best right it’s usually impulsive it’s
usually self-serving
usually right based in whatever reaction
to whatever feeling I’m having in that
moment you know it’s like I’m angry I
want to hit right
you know mad I want to yell it’s it’s
that kind of stuff and that you know it
why you might get that instant
gratification for that behavior it
usually isn’t the best solution to the
problem in general I also had a sponsor
sorta explained to me that as addicts
like we have this tendency to look at
you know solutions in extremes it’s like
if you know everything’s all or nothing
or good or bad or it’s either all this
or all that and most of the time the
solution is somewhere in the middle and
that a good thing to do is kind of sit
for a minute and feel out the extremes
like alright well this is how I want to
react to this situation
what’s the complete and polar opposite
of that you know and sort of sit with it
for a minute use a sponsor use some
friends talk about some other solutions
and find some solution that somewhere in
the middle now because so many times the
goal is to like I’m trying to get
something done or to teach my kids a
lesson or to you know get a task
completed and I lose sight of that when
I make decisions based on my feelings
yeah if you hear me share my story my
first thought is generally [ __ ] it
yeah thanks where I go every time [ __ ]
it to bring up the the first session
part of this you know episode I I got
defensive when I got caught vaping and
it was pointed out to me and my thoughts
were like who the [ __ ] told on me and
why couldn’t that person have some
integrity and come talk to him selves
and why’d they have to feel like they
need to tell my supervisor and like none
of that [ __ ] really mattered in the long
run I was doing it right do I agree with
the method they handled it in not
entirely it’s not who I want to be but
maybe they didn’t know me or feel
comfortable talking to me about it and
they wanted to address it I don’t
[ __ ] know but yeah my first thought
is usually my first four or five
thoughts are pretty awful and that’s the
benefit of staying connected to recovery
connected to people in recovery is that
I have people that have sort of some
shared values and goals I mean for me
personally that tends to be the people I
like to have around
in my life are people that I you know
respect their opinions in respect the
way that they live in the person that
they are and so that I can sort of talk
through some of this crazy stuff and
unfortunately I have the tendency of
obviously I like to talk a lot and
though I have the tendency to when I get
into something I will talk out my crazy
thinking with people sometimes which is
kind of entertaining because I’ll talk
right out and admit fully out like
whatever the first crazy thought 70
times but it’s fun to say it out loud
because then it really you know to
myself those things in my head sound
really they don’t sound irrational they
sound like good ideas they sound like
the solution to the problem and then you
say it out loud and you’re just like oh
that really you know Wow that’s the way
I want to handle that like someone else
I were looking at someone else who
handled the situation like that and my
wife used to bring that up to me all the
time with the kids she’s like if we were
in public and you saw another person
talk to their kids that way or to you
know handle their situation with their
children that way what would you think
and it’s caused me to kind of step back
and look at my behavior sometimes like
that like to step out of my own personal
feelings to make decisions on how to
handle stuff I so I tend to explain that
for myself as part of a step one thing
and I’m sure some you know step studier
would tell me I’m way off on this but I
look at the part of step one that says
my life is unmanageable right and I
always for a long time I consider that
to just mean you know unmanageability
I’m crazy its chaotic and I look at it
now as actually literally unmanageable
as in I am NOT a good manager of it if
you put me in charge of it as the CEO of
my life I’m [ __ ] terrible at it by
yeah and so I need a board of directors
right behind the scenes I need these
people I talk to in order to make the
company run right the company of myself
right I’m crazy I don’t manage it well
and no matter how long I stay here how
many steps I work my information sucks I
need to run it by other people and get
their input right and so that
fellowship that we go to you may have
heard me say like one of my favorite
sayings out of the basic Texas in the
second tradition it says we are miss
managers and not one of us is
consistently capable of making good
decisions right and I don’t quote a lot
of literature like that but that line
for me cuz I’m an egomaniac and I think
that I’m smart and I can figure
everything out and I got it all to
myself and then to hear that it’s like
no I am a Mis manager you know I’ll get
it right occasionally but in general you
know maybe I’ll give myself I’ll be
generous to myself seven out of ten
times I’m gonna get it wrong like seven
out of ten times my first impulsive
decision is wrong you know absolutely I
don’t know you got anything else to add
about work in recovery yeah the only
other thing I thought with work was you
know I find that to be the place where I
struggle the most with my character
defects I want to be included in the you
know water cooler conversations about
this person and that person and what
they’re doing and what they’re not doing
and as you as I’ve worked my way up and
gotten into a supervisory position it’s
it becomes challenging you can put
yourself into really bad situations you
know over the years I’ve put myself in
really bad situations trying to play
both sides of the you know I’m on the
side of my boss and your supervisors or
I’m on the side of the employees because
you know a lot of when you’re employing
20-some people everybody’s got opinions
everybody thinks you should be doing
something different or this different or
that different and I’ve just found it
difficult personally to maintain my
integrity when it comes to staying out
of gossip staying out of the sort of
rumor mill water cooler conversations
right well one of the things I ran into
trouble with when I worked in the
construction field was it seemed like
everybody did drugs or drank right and
so frequently it was a great thing when
you got off early for a holiday
everybody went to the bar there was some
jobs where you were working on a certain
building that was located across the
street from a bar and that was the daily
lunch routine and it was very
called a not completely wanting to
expose myself as someone in recovery at
all times
but also be just to deal with the stigma
of you know it’s almost like the reverse
stigma of I don’t drink and I don’t want
to and what the hell’s wrong with you as
a manager stretching that beer with me
right but along with that so that’s one
particular instance but I definitely
agreed that work or job related
functions seem to be the most difficult
place to either remember to apply
spiritual principles or just to apply
them when we do remember them and why
like what is it behind that that makes
them so difficult I guess is my question
it seems to be I mean I guess family
life is kind of a hard place to remember
it all the time too I seems to be a
little easier there because I actually
give a [ __ ] about my kids for sure I
love them and I don’t want to harm them
but what is it about work that makes it
such an easy place to forget to practice
these principles we believe in I think
for me the biggest thing is most of
those people
I will not see outside of that you know
eight hours that I’m at the office I
don’t see those people in my personal
life and so I tend to be personalized
them and deep personalize myself and so
therefore it’s just a bunch of people at
a place and none of these actions really
have any impact outside of that couple
of hours there and I don’t know that
that’s the right way to look at that you
know I need to sort of personalize them
and look at them as human beings and
look at them as you know people treat
them as people thing so I was thinking
maybe the harder reason to practice it
in a work environment is because we
spend so much time around these people
like generally with with my you know
recovery friends I get to spend an hour
at a meeting or maybe I get to spend a
couple hours before or after the meeting
eating dinner but these work people is
like eight hours a day five days a week
I probably spent as much time with them
as I do my family sometimes more right
unless you count sleeping time which
don’t maybe it’s because of that close
interaction and such frequency that it
becomes harder to deal with their
character defects in which case mine get
turned on to to react to them yeah and
see I’m the opposite like I’m the
feelings don’t motivate what we do you
know what I mean like your feelings do
not matter at all we have a job to get
done this is how we do it this is what
needs to get done you can like it or not
like it I don’t really care this is what
needs to get done and you know that
approach allows me to sort of not not it
allows me to minimize I don’t say not
care cuz obviously I do care about some
of these people I’ve known them for 20
years so I do care about them a little
bit but it’s it’s very easy to separate
out the personality side of things
sometimes I have to do things that
you’re not going to like because I’m a
supervisor I got to tell you things you
don’t want to like I got to give you
jobs you’re not gonna like and for me to
manage that well it’s it’s like the way
I manage uncomfortable feelings for
myself is just to squash them down
intellectualize them away and act like
they don’t exist so if I’m doing that
with myself I’m gonna do that with you
too you know I’m gonna make it so that
your feelings don’t really matter what
you say you know you get reduced to a
machine in my head versus an actual
person with actual feelings that there
are consequences to things that I say
about you to your co-workers you know
and in my personal relationships I tend
to focus a lot on that those things and
in work I don’t do you think also maybe
the whole money property and prestige
piece could come into that like at work
we can be diverted from our primary
purpose of being good kind loving
compassionate human beings because
that’s really not our focus there our
focus there is to earn a paycheck or
focus there is to get a job done – maybe
advance our career we want the prestige
of advancement so we got to perform well
so we gotta make money for the company
whatever it is like do you think because
the focus there is different it can
divert us from what we believe our
primary role in life and recovery is
yeah so I don’t believe my primary
purpose in my life is to carry the
message to the attic who still suffers
like I what I would consider my primary
purpose I guess it’s more than I guess
spiritual living in the spiritual side
of that so if yeah if you’re tying it in
to that part I don’t know that’s where
these so I’ve heard it said and I don’t
know I’ve wrestled with this in my head
for a long time that spiritual
principles are never in conflict and I
don’t know if that’s always true at like
a work setting because and I don’t know
that it is or it is and I’m not making a
claim either way I’m saying sometimes
there are hard decisions you know again
just like letting that girl go or or
letting you know pulling someone up for
a mistake that they made or you know
pulling someone up about something they
don’t like like obviously you know
there’s a it’s really difficult to do
that in a way that doesn’t hurt their
feelings it doesn’t put them down you
know and trying to practice these
principles when I have to do those
things when I have to have conversations
with people about difficult subjects is
how I try to apply that you know I try
to just be respectful I try to be honest
I tried it you know when I have to pull
someone up on something I’m trying to
sit down with them separate out my
feelings look them in the face and say
this is the issue that we’re having this
is what’s come up you know let’s deal
with it this way again I don’t always do
that there are times I get mad about
things and yell about things or say
something to someone else you know
because it’s like at our work it’s what
I one of the specific struggles is there
are people that have worked there a long
time they’re really good at certain
aspects of their jobs but they sort of
have what I’m gonna call like baby
feelings they think that they should be
the most important person there and that
everything should cater around them and
there are so many other pieces in the
system so many other little things at
play that they don’t understand but yet
they’ll come
and you know this person isn’t doing
that well enough and you’re not doing
this well enough and I need these things
and you’re not giving them to me
and they don’t even understand why it is
the way it is and so trying to just keep
them in a positive way doing their job
getting done what we need to do
addressing their concerns you know
there’s a lot of pieces there that are
hard to sort of I don’t know bah
homeless a bald down that’s a way bad
way to say that but get tied up in how
do you practice spiritual principles in
all these different disagreeable areas
like they aren’t they don’t agree they
they conflict with each other or you
know there’s conflict there because you
know sure it’d be great to go in and
give every employee of five dollar race
tomorrow and they all might be happy for
a month or two months and then they’re
gonna want more mony and then you know
this isn’t gonna be good enough okay so
we fixed that is that gonna really fix
the problem it’s gonna make them happy
it’s gonna bring them peace it’s gonna
maybe make their life easier but that if
the company closes and we all lose our
job then nobody’s you know that’s a
detriment to everyone you know so yeah
we can’t just give away all the money
you know because then there’s none to
keep a company running so there are some
conflicting things there yeah one other
concept that occurred to me that might
make it hard to practice spiritual
principles at work and I’ll run this by
you to see what you think so when I got
to recovery I had always felt isolated
and apart from right I never even going
back as far as like schooling I just
felt different than everybody else and
like something was wrong with me and I
didn’t fit in right so when I got to
recovery and could buy in and and I did
these certain behaviors that thank God
were spiritual principles and good
behaviors for me right to help keep me
in recovery I felt a part of in doing
that so that led me in a positive
direction right when I go to work I find
that that’s generally not how most of
society is living right they’re not all
hanging around the watercooler talking
about how they can practice trust
Leith today right right so I want to be
a part of still and in that work
environment when I try to go for that
social acceptability piece right that
that being a part of the environment
there and the crew I tend to participate
in what they’re doing right and not that
I’m some weak minded person that can’t
think for himself and has to join the
crowd but I do want to be a part of
things right I want to be a part of the
work environment I want to be a part of
the crew and the fun they’re having over
there at the water cooler or wherever
they have it so do you think that ties
into my sometimes I diminish my own
spiritual principle actions at work to
try to fit in oh yeah cuz you’re in a
forced environment you know what I mean
your some of these people you have to be
around and just to be honest if you get
20 people in a room I mean probably two
if not more of them are just gonna be
[ __ ] you know what I mean they’re
just oh and not even complete [ __ ]
but they just might be dishonest people
they might you know we might have a guy
at your work that you know tells a lot
of stories that you know or [ __ ] you
know to me and you know you can’t really
trust that person
all that much and you know it’s you have
a lot of personalities that are
different that you’re sort of maybe
wouldn’t hang around mmm in your regular
life they aren’t really people that you
would choose to associate with that
you’re sort of forced to associate with
and with all those different personnel
you know now I mean I go to meetings I
like everyone I’m nice enough to
everyone but I don’t hang out you know
I’m not forced to spend hours of time
with all those people all the time I get
to pick and choose the ones I want to
hang out with and go out to eat with and
I go do social activities with or have
in my house right and I tend to pick the
ones I like so I don’t I don’t typically
talk bad about my friends cuz I like
them like I said earlier so the people
at work that I like get along with but
the other side of it and it’s true for
me too
like we all have
sets and liability strings and
limitations you know character defects
every person has them I have them at my
job I have things I’m really good at I
have things I’m not so good at it just
becomes hard when people want to talk
about the things that you’re not good at
you know people want to criticize me or
talk to each other about it behind my
back like I don’t want to hear that I
get my feelings get hurt and I get
defensive and so I want to do that back
and you know it’s like little ticky tack
stuff like that it’s definitely hard
when people paint a picture of me and
it’s not the full picture and it’s only
based on that one piece that I really
don’t want to be emphasized right so
yeah I can understand that and then it’s
the same with them they have those same
things too and you know I have to really
push myself to be like hey maybe this
person is a little bit of a you know
diva at work but they’re really good at
their job and they do exceptionally well
in these areas and so overall they’re an
asset to the company their their value
to be here and if I can work with their
strengths and sort of diminish their
limitations or liabilities you know
that’s that’s the job of management or
leadership there’s a really good book
out actually called tribal leadership
which is sort of about some of these
concepts it’s more about how you
cultivate an attitude of a tribe like
hey we’re all you know or a team you
know we’re a we’re a tribe we’re all
working together and you use these
concepts of like similar goals you know
we all have the same goals we all have
the same focuses we all have the same
you know drives to do these things and
and cultivating those attitudes so that
people stay focused on what they’re
supposed to be focused on at work not on
what so-and-so is doing with whoever’s
wife and what’s going on behind the
scenes and did you hear this guy got
drunk and did drunk texted the girl at
work the other night you know that kind
of stuff like if we can keep focused on
the important things of our tribe you
know hopefully we can negotiate around
some of that BS that’s going on
right yeah I had read a you know an
article before I was trying to be a
better parents I read a book on
parenting I couldn’t tell you what it
was called who wrote it or any of that
good stuff I’d love to you know give him
a shout-out but it definitely talked
about the importance in psychology of
creating a feeling of you know a team
and it talked about you know coming up
with a sort of a mantra for your family
like hey we’re Browns and we do the
right thing or something and how that
actually works for children like they
buy into it they repeat that kind of
thing in their head and they feel we’re
all in this together we’re browns and we
don’t do this certain thing or we do do
this other certain thing and how
powerful that can be you had mentioned
something else that brought up something
I read always the the exercise about
when you’re struggling with the
resentment or just with somebody you
really don’t like to remember that even
the worst person you’ve met has friends
right nobody’s alone in the world and
those friends aren’t hanging around them
because of those qualities you see that
you don’t like they’re seeing some other
qualities in this hated person that are
pretty positive right so everybody’s got
some of these positive aspects and to
remember that at all times that no
matter how mad I am about this person’s
one behavior there’s probably a whole
big picture behind it that other people
are seeing and maybe if I look I can see
that – yeah absolutely
all right you got anything else for this
week no I think that’s about all the
things I could talk about a work that’s
the moment definitely not all I could
talk about but I think I’m done talking
for the morning all right we’ll see you
again on the next episode that wraps up
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