102: Codependency – Are You Codependent? (Sort Of)

Have you ever wondered if you are codependent? Have you ever even heard of codependency? Jenny fills in for Billy this week and we explore the world of codependency. We talk about what codependency is, what it can look like, if you can be codependent on behaviors and not just people, and ultimately some possible tips on what might help alleviate some of the need to be codependent? What makes us feel like we won’t be able to go on without that certain someone or something that seems to be hijack our reason for being? Is it about attachment? Is it about self-worth? Are there support groups that help address codependency? Jenny and Jason take a look at their own codependency through the use of a codependency quiz. Take the quiz along with us and see if your relationship might have some areas that could improve to provide you with more freedom and choice in whether you belong there or not. Join the conversation by leaving a message, emailing us at RecoverySortOf@gmail.com, or find us on Twitter, Facebook or Instagram, or find us on our website at www.recoverysortof.com.

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Transcript:

recovery sort of is a podcast where we discuss recovery topics from the perspective of people living in long-term recovery this podcast does not intend to represent the views of any particular group organization or fellowship the attitudes expressed are solely the opinion of its contributors be advised there may be strong language or topics of an adult nature

welcome back it’s recovery sort of i’m jason a guy who might or might not be codependent we’ll find out today and i’m here with jenny hi i’m jenny i’m a person in long-term recovery so we’re going to talk about codependency i think you know after our topic a couple weeks ago about enabling you know the idea of the enabler might have some codependent tendencies i think it’s a thing that’s thrown around obviously in codependence anonymous which is its own 12-step fellowship but also in the world of al-anon and naran might even get tossed around in adult children of alcoholics at times this idea of being co-dependent um it’s interesting because i’ve heard so much about it over the course of my recovery and and you know therapy work and everything and what is it where does it come from how does it exist but also some contrary statements to you know well so for instance i was in a a training or a talk by the one of the people who coined the term back in the 80s and they wow actually said you know we basically we look back at this and kind of wish we wouldn’t coin this term because while there is some unhealthy factors that people can take on in relationships and some unhealthy behaviors that you know minimize their importance and maximize the importance of the other what we’re coming to understand more and more is that humans as mammals are co-regulating beings and like we don’t survive by ourselves and we really do need other people so it’s less i guess from the idea of this codependent thing everybody was like oh i need to be fully self-sufficient and just take care of myself but i need to be provide myself with everything i need and that’s not actually really all that healthy either so it’s not so much that they were saying the idea of what people think of sometimes is codependency is bad but just we don’t want people running around thinking they need to be all on their own and not tolerate anything from their partner and you know as soon as they do something wrong i need to leave and not put up with that [ __ ] that my wife or husband is doing like that’s not really the case like we do need other people so it’s been an interesting journey hearing about all this codependency stuff you know the the book codependent no more was a really interesting read um but i i think you’re going to introduce us to like this idea and the definition of it and and then we’re going to take a quiz right yep i got a quiz for you i’m going to find out how codependent i am um and you know what you brought up about you know we need each other and we’re you know interdependent um that’s that’s the question i’ve been wanting what’s the where is the threshold between helping your loved one and uh being a narcissist you know like that word narcissist kept coming up and i had to like double check the definition for that like you don’t want to be like a selfish jerk but you don’t want to you know enslave yourself to others and it’s just you always have to check your boundaries but we’ll get to that i guess should we start with what’s the old saying the whole uh that guy can’t be a narcissist because he’d have to think of himself more than i do or something like that i don’t think i heard that one my father said it a long time ago i wish i remembered what it was because it was pretty funny we’ll edit it in yeah so basically codependency is needing to be needed only feeling valued when you are needed and this could be by a romantic partner a parent a child a co-worker it can even be stuff you you are codependent to your stuff if like you can you can only have like aeropostale clothing size four i’m only valued if i have a boyfriend um can you be co-dependent on drugs is that a thing uh i think is that just addiction is that i mean are you i mean you’re dependent on them but is that a codependent like do you gain value because i wonder i’m only okay i guess just from the idea of like uh if i feel worthless i’m using this other thing to take away that worthless feeling and so in this codependent definition it’s saying like oh well i’m using this other thing to give me worth right like this person these clothes whatever drugs might not necessarily give you worth but they are taking away that worthless feeling so i wonder if it’s very similar reaction interesting take well and you see so many of us and and myself definitely included in this when we get clean the first next best fill-in for that right like you pull the drug tissue out of the tissue box and the next thing that pops up in its place is relationships because god damn they are validating actually i went to food but

that whole you know when people say like an attractive girlfriend fits you like a cardigan or something like you walk through the mall feeling like the king of the world because you’re like oh everybody’s jealous of who i’m walking with your cardigan yeah right i just all right i guess they’re not jealous maybe it’s a pair of jordans in 2021 i don’t know but just this whole idea of like that really made me feel so worthy yeah so i i don’t know it’s interesting go ahead sorry oh uh no big deal um uh so actually and you know what i didn’t know there was a codependency anonymous until i started kind of yeah did you ever go to one i have not and and the only reason i didn’t check it out because i thought it was fascinating and and probably applied to me at some point but when i had kind of learned about where it was and when to go i had also heard that it wasn’t very good oh okay so that particular meeting not the the program but that meeting wasn’t all that great and so i was like yeah i’m guessing they’re few and far between because i hadn’t heard of one until now and i think the one i heard of was in like towson okay that’s too far that’s what yeah i mean everything’s online now i think the first time i heard about codependency i think i heard about it in high school like maybe like in health class or something but it came up in rehab with acla stuff and then when i read the acoa laundry list and codependency was on there and a description of codependency and i that’s when i really learned about it and they they hit they labeled me with that in a rehab they labeled you with it yeah put the stamp on and rolled by on the conveyor belt it was so funny when i was read a codependent that was me that’s me yeah when i was in rehab and uh like on my first like one-on-one with the counselor and she was like going through my um whatever how i was doing or whatever and there was this acronym over and over acoa acla i’m like what what is this acla she’s like oh that’s you like and and uh that’s that’s that began my whatever journey with acla and codependency but that laundry list is good anyway codependency’s more a symptom of acoa and then it’s also its own thing because you could be codependent on non-addictive things um so don’t they become addictive once you become co-dependent on them um good point yes just curious no one argue with that am i co-dependent on my vape

huh it doesn’t give me worth but wow then i’d be hard-pressed to be without it no i wouldn’t say that’s co-dependent it has i think the the center is does it give you a sense of value a sense of self-worth are you not cool unless you’re vaping i don’t really think i’m cool when i’m vaping a lot of times i’m vaping and i’m like god these people probably think i’m such a douche i want to hide it i’m like i wish it didn’t produce any smoke or whatever you want to call it i wish it was just clear and you couldn’t ever see it good keep thinking that

okay back on track all right so uh codependents have a hard time saying no when asked for help uh and they uh codependents avoid conflict because they wanna and they wanna fix other people’s problems they need to feel in control um this one i’m i’m awfully guilty of and even recently codependents get upset when people don’t recognize how much you do for them i found myself the other day so it’s uh back to school and uh there’s a new routine and this year i’m driving my kids to school and mornings are hectic and whatever the morning wasn’t going as smoothly as possible and we finally got in the car and we’re on our way and i was like raising my voice and like you need to be faster you can’t be watching television tell your dress do you know how much i do for you and holy [ __ ] i was like in my head i went ping wow okay that’s so interesting it just came out of my mouth and i realized i’m like wow what was that so that that brings to mind for me like that whole concept of uh the people who label themselves or get labeled as the martyr right like i always thought my mom is the martyr she’s like oh yeah she’ll do anything for you but be resentful and miserable the whole time she’s doing it that could that could be codependency symptom right there a lot a lot of shame and guilt behind that like she wouldn’t be able to live with herself if she didn’t do those things to help out and yet at the same time she wasn’t happy living with herself doing them yeah guilt and shame are definitely fuel for the co-dependent fire when i think of codependency i don’t really think of how much i do for people or them not acknowledging it like when i picture it in my life at least today i picture those times when i can’t be happy unless the people around me are enjoying themselves like so we’ll do something as a family and we’ll go to amusement park and then one of the kids maybe isn’t having a lot of fun for whatever reason and i can at times and not as often anymore there’s a lot of times i can separate and say you know what like that’s not mine that’s theirs and i can’t control it and i’m going to have a good day regardless but there’s been a lot of help in my life that it’s like i’m miserable because i can’t fix the others around me yeah yeah that’s where i picture my like codependency looking like and i’ve i mean i’ve come a long way you know with the recovery journey of but i used to be very much like that oh my god they’re not having fun it’s my fault yeah i’ll get that way even when they are having fun and they swear to god to me they’re having fun like this is more with my wife and i just don’t believe her and i’m like she’s not really having fun i can’t be happy she’s got she’s got that face of not having fun

i make [ _ ] up i really do well you know you have a good imagination oh very good imagine it’s always gloomy though i never imagined like i bet she’s actually happy she really looks like she’s probably happy deep well maybe you could catch yourself have a plan when you see the gloom coming be like oh let’s use my imagination to do a better job this time a little pep talk before you go to the fair i i was thinking the other day like you know learning about this and and this is kind of i’m taking a training right now uh polyvagal theory and it talks about this like this state of even when things are well like there’s always the oh this is bad oh this is bad oh this isn’t what it’s supposed to be and then it could be the day where everything’s exactly what i wanted it to be and then i’m like but when’s it not gonna be like this yeah it’s like that constant uh and and you know definitely it’s gotten better it’s not to that point of like it my life is miserable over it but it’s still it’s still there like i still recognize it regularly i’m like oh my god i am and people call that pessimism but i i think it’s something deeper than just pessimism so it’s the well-worn path yes it’s the right yeah not the groove the groove is where you want to be but the red is the opposite oh all right it’s the same path but negative i guess but then again that’s labeling you know we talk about buddhism like one’s good one’s bad like if you look at it a groove in a rut are the same [ _ ] thing are you in a groove are you stuck in a rut like you’re stuck either way yeah

anyway um anyway i can’t think about negativity bias too when we’re talking about this stuff just you know your mind’s always going to go towards uh what’s worse because it helps you survive well and we’re programmed to pick out what’s wrong in the picture not what’s not the 99 things that are right we’re programmed brain wise like you said for survival to pick out the one that’s not right so we’ll go through life and not acknowledge the 10 things our kid did today that’s exactly what it’s supposed to do but we’re like but you didn’t do that one yeah and now the whole village is going to burn i love that you scored four goals in your soccer game but that one you missed and kicked it over the corner oh you gotta work on that you didn’t do that yeah okay but i i could easily like that’s your brain went there and you chose not to phew okay keep making that choice but hopefully you won’t go to that quickly in your brain um so where was i i was looking at lists and description of codependency um do you do you ever well this will come in your quiz when i do your quiz um codependents will do things that risk their own health and safety for other people um

like like literally risk my own health yeah i mean i don’t have that exciting of a life but maybe risk my own mental health oh i i yeah my mental health is on the back burner at times but i’m not like yeah i’m not like jumping off a seven story cliff to like whatever yeah i have a bungee jump to save you know i’ll catch you in midair like i’m not that heroic i guess or don’t face those kind of situations to know if i’m that heroic yeah i’m like really against like breaking bones so i’m probably not gonna i have never same knock on wood there’s still time it’s all going to come when i’m 60. my hips

um codependents do not assert their own needs and people pleasing holy [ _ ] was i i was uh people please hardcore people yeah my god yeah that’s so me from before yeah i’m a i’m a good people pleaser oh it’s still it’s still there yeah that’s why i was such a good administrative assistant i’m like you got it boss and i was right on it so i don’t know if i’d be a very good administrative assistant now but yeah i’m not a good thing i don’t need a job and that’s the thing so some of these things are great right we find some self-love some self-acceptance through recovery through therapy through our practices and we get better with these things sometimes slowly over time sometimes there’s you know large leaps in how much better we get in moments or really deep understandings we gain but it’s not all like rainbows and unicorns when you get healthier and nobody ever prepared me for that right so that yeah i don’t people please the way i used to i will not make my life as miserable to go out of my way to make others happy or to do what i think society says i’m supposed to do like there’s a lot of times today i can just choose what i really want and it does make me happier to do that and that’s great but then there’s other things like when i hated myself i was in the gym all the time and like 500 in gnc supplements and like the reality is i looked better on the outside i guess right like and of course i was a little younger too but like i lost that drive when i got healthier i’m like i don’t really need the gym six times a week i can go three and it’s all right if i don’t look perfect and flawless and and so there’s definitely the part of me that’s like that’s sad i wish i had the body back from when i hated myself or i wish i had this part of like i used to perfectionism big part of my life right and now like where it’s safe to make mistakes because i love myself well i make more mistakes imagine that and i’m like damn it i kind of liked when i didn’t make more mistakes like it was kind of nicer so nobody prepared me that there’s also some i guess quote-unquote drawbacks now the bonus to that idea is that when i make mistakes it doesn’t really break me the way it used to it’s not a day-ending event right it’s not a depression for the next few weeks it’s like ah darn okay what’s next right yeah that’s how do you judge those mistakes yeah you know wait do they have yeah there’s the freedom from the no self-judgment but there is definitely without a doubt more mistakes in my life today because i don’t i’m allowed to make them and i’m like i liked when i did everything better i’m i’m getting his way off oh no that’s not way up i think it ties in um but you your obsession of working out that would be a co-dependency on stuff you had to have that body for self-worth co-dependent on working out i guess i still kind of am i got on the scale the other day and i was depressed really i was not deeply but of it’s it did like i haven’t been on a scale in quite a while and i got on and i was like really oh that hurts my feelings oh well i think you look great well thank you but it was yeah i was like i can’t believe i don’t weigh more than that i got a scale recently but i was really careful to buy one because i know i’ll obsess but i had a doctor’s visit over the summer and i was like i better do something about that anyway yeah i gotta make sure i don’t obsess over that so depending on working out very interesting so many uh so much of the causes of codependency are uh rooted in fear of abandonment and i somebody i read somewhere that’s like fear of abandonment is the universal shame we all have that at some level and i i’ll agree with that but you know um codependency is caused by toxic shame due to trauma i find it so hard as a parent not to fall into like codependent patterns because these little creatures are dependent on me and it’s where’s that line where i like you know you gotta do it yourself or am i helping you as mom or so that’s kind of what i’m struggling with you know as i have someone turning 11 a daughter turning 11 and it’s like when do i start making her do it for herself you know what am i and not be mean old mommy you know so it’s hard when like there’s the legal and maternal uh instinct well there’s no legal instinct but you know the legal instinct i guess i have to feed you but i think that’s in the spleen i don’t even know what the [ _ ] a spleen is i’m not gonna lie it’s just sounding good um but uh you know as they get older i gotta i don’t know start bouncing out like all right you take care of this yourself now you know and that’s not on me but so when i was doing just a little bit of preliminary research for this are you laughing because i’m interrupting you no spleen still okay fair enough look that was my codependency i was worried you were you were mad at me see no i don’t get mad at you um what the oh yeah so preliminary research i did a little tiny bit and it was like i was thinking is codependency just from your attachment category and so i looked that up and what i found was it talked some about attachment and it mentioned trauma in there um interesting you would say like there’s this place we need to get to of where’s that balance of when am i being over doing what i’m supposed to be doing and when am i hitting it just right like i’m doing just enough and what am i doing too little and you know i often criticize myself as saying like i set these boundaries with my kids because i’m lazy or or because i don’t want to do stuff and if i can get out of it i will like i think i even joked about that on that episode about enabling and i i don’t know i’m starting to wonder if maybe that’s not exactly where i i’m supposed to understand my line like i do it if it’s the right thing for me to do and if it doesn’t feel like it is and granted that has to come from a healthy place not like oh the laundry feels like more than i want to do today well the laundry needs to get done so if i want to feel like i have clothes the rest of the week you know i want to feel like doing that but i think maybe that is where the healthy line is like just where i understand my boundary like i can’t do any more here like i i’ve done my portion i’m not going to go any further that’s my boundary and that’s gonna have to be wherever your boundary is to pick up the rest of it that sounds like you’re reading your instincts if you’re doing everything else in your life right you know like balancing everything out then it sounds like a like a healthy area i guess i’m judging myself for being healthy i’m not finding the right words for it but it just seems like if you’re practicing um good mental health practices and and giving and self-care and everything so what comes out as a boundary should naturally be there like it seems all like a math equation in my head like you know if you put you know like two here two years here it all comes out you know be about ten you know you’re good so we’re eight before ten everybody try to be a ten but yeah i think growing up with like twisted family values made it hard for me to maintain like healthy friendships and so i ended up gravitating towards people that needed help and they wanted me to be around so it was easy to have those friends but i that was just people pleasing i was like i was like the underdog friends you know like oh they’re misunderstood i’ll be their friend you know

that’s funny i never considered that idea like i always thought i was the worst person in the world and i was just glad people took me it was like oh you’ll have me that’s you were exactly what i wanted so you were enabling a co-dependent relationship yeah all over the place i you know i think about when i got clean in recovery i was working a job that i had had before it wasn’t that great and then i i kind of jumped out on a limb and applied for this union position you know in a trade and to go through the schooling and all and i remember thinking through that process like well i have felonies um you know this is one place i can work where i can make a decent living with felonies uh so i really gotta put all my eggs in this basket like if not i’m gonna be stuck making twelve dollars an hour or whatever and when i i went i went through the process which was scary as hell because i’m not a guy that like puts in applications like if i don’t know a friend of a friend who can just get me in like a oh i’m beat then right i’m not gonna go out there and put an application i did that it took the test showed up for the interview and when they were like yeah you know we want you to come in the union you start this date and all that stuff i remember the feeling and i don’t think i said these words but it was very much the feeling of like a relationship with a girl it was like oh you want me that’s great this is i knew this was right for me right like it was very much based on if the other people would accept me then i was okay and that’s where i wanted to be and i didn’t even realize until you know i don’t know ten years after that in some therapy and and deciding to leave that career venture that like i had a choice in what i want to do i don’t have to just work wherever they accept me like i can actually pick what’s interesting to me and and do that like i’m allowed to i’m worth that and i was like holy [ _ ] amazing well it was the holy [ _ ] of that i’m worth that that’s crazy i can’t believe that but it’s also the holy [ __ ] of wow look at my past my whole life has been are you gonna tell me i’m worth that all my relationships my career everything wow yeah so i was that what we were talking about yeah sure good yes yeah i did it right you are worth it we were talking about because yeah i was picking the underdog friends because i had i had trouble making we moved a lot too so i had trouble making and keeping friends it was easy for me to like pick up people who like needed extra i was like i can be that extra oh i was the underdog friend we would have been friends though i needed the the girl to like be mommy is that codependency when the wife is more like mom yeah man maybe or have some mom qualities like the the whole caretaking i might have a different label yeah i’ll fix you kind of thing i i mean i know some women who struggle with that on that side of that like i am definitely not the that side of it like i don’t understand i’m like take care of somebody who’s gonna do it for me but but it’s interesting it’s like a gender thing yeah yeah i’m sure there’s some of that in there but yeah the whole you know i mean from the basics of like helping out making the guys lunch every day and dinner every day and all these kind of things to the more extreme like oh this guy’s struggling to stay clean and keeps going to prison i’ll show up for him and he’ll live with me and i’ll let him use my car to do stuff and like all that yeah that was me to a degree the irony was of course i was nurturing my own alcohol addiction and i was like oh he’s in rehab i’ll wait for him i’ll visit him i’ll drive two and a half hours to see him for 30 minutes yeah eastern shore or no i live in jersey oh yeah sorry i’m only familiar with the maryland correctional institutions i did visit an old boyfriend in prison once like that was my my lone prison uh experience i mean i visited people in prison some guys in florida when i lived in new jersey holy okay yeah no wonder you want to do a codependent episode this episode has been brought to you in part by voices of hope inc a non-profit recovery organization made up of people in recovery family members and allies together members strive to protect the dignity of those that use drugs and those in recovery by advocating for treatment harm reduction and support resources and mentoring please visit us at www.voicesofhopemaryland.org

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so uh why don’t we do the quiz jason yes are you currently in a relationship with one or more needy people that allow you to take care of them one or more needy people yes i have five children um are they needy keyword needy people that allow you to take care of them i think when it comes to kids that’s what makes it tough like you gotta take care of those needy little kids so i i think you know i would definitely have to say one of them feels entitled or expects to be taken care of not just in a you should be my parent way but very much in a you owe me to do whatever the [ _ ] i want kind of way and that’s that’s been rough um looking at my history yeah yeah i have often and and when i think about it like i’m thinking back to times when you know not being faithful in a relationship texting three four five different people at all times having these like shadow relationships and then finding that like what i really wanted from it was it’s fun to talk to you it’s nice it’s a little escape also the conversation’s interesting whatever maybe we’re sending some pictures too and that’s cool but what i found was when i didn’t really have time to participate for a day or two in those conversations many of those people were highly distraught and dysregulated about that idea like all of a sudden they weren’t important enough to me and i didn’t care enough and i was this and that the other and so yeah i mean they were needy people they were feeding off of what i was giving them to to survive it seemed like in those moments right it seemed so it seemed very bad that i could not talk to them okay when another person acts i’m gonna put that as a yes by the way yeah i don’t i don’t i’m trying to picture that now like i have present day you have one or more needy people i really don’t think i tolerate it okay like i i know well it’s it’s hard to say because i i haven’t seen what happens when i don’t show up yet okay i’d say no let’s say i have boundaries today when another person acts negatively towards you does it affect you a lot emotionally wow so this is so hard to say right because i look at what it used to be and i say it’s definitely way better now like i can picture somebody saying before that they were unhappy with me or didn’t like me and i would have been distraught for days and now it’s like a couple hours and i might think about it here and there for a day or two but i’m not like i guess i i have some self-talk and some positive things to say to myself to counteract it and i don’t i don’t ruminate on it constantly for long periods but it still affects me like i still don’t you don’t like me why not maybe the key word is a lot does it affect you a lot emotionally and a lot is actually two words i would say no okay so so far we got two notes when your friend does something negative that directly affects you do you start taking it personally i can’t even quantify a lot yet i’m still on the last question but what does a lot mean uh when a friend say it again when your friend does something negative that directly affects you do you start taking it personally oh yeah i i yeah my therapist my last therapist told me i take everything personally okay what are your answers i want to know you too oh go back to one what was one uh am i currently in a relationship with needy people nope just my kids no needy people no i i have a very small life a small life i don’t have many i can’t think nothing comes to mind quickly okay yeah that’s right and then when another person acts negatively towards you yes i uh did it affect me a lot emotionally yep i have a hard time shaking that and then when a friend does something negative that directly affects me yeah i do take it personally even though like intellectually i understand it’s not personally it’ll still um sit i’ll sit with it for a while i teach people this almost on a daily basis i’m like what people say says so much more about them yeah it does about you and if you were if it was jim bob or billy bob or jane sue in that position that person would say it in the same tone they would say the same words it’s not about you personally that’s just who they are and where they’re at but god living that is hard yeah there was like a snarky comment and a group email and i i was like do i say something you know i’m trying to think of like the highest uh possible response you know without i didn’t want to be an [ _ ] about it but i’m like we gotta resolve this and i bothered me for like a day and a half two days when it finally like i was like jenny chill out oh see i don’t want to resolve it i want to be an [ _ ] but i want to be a oh i want to be an [ _ ] but then i was like no no let’s try this aggressive [ _ ] yeah that’s where i go i’m like i want to condescend you and be so intelligent that you feel like a [ _ ] about how much of an [ _ ] you are yeah my my instinct isn’t always wholesome and then i go i try to be like oh i don’t i try to catch myself and sometimes i catch myself and then there’s other times when it is like i think i’m gonna catch myself like the whole way to the moment up until then i’m like i’m just not gonna say it i’m gonna be zen i’m peaceful i can breathe through it it’s okay and then the moment comes and something in me [ _ ] snaps and i lose it and you hear all of it in the ugliest version possible and i’m like oh yeah that was me in the car on the way to school the other day sorry kids

um next question when your friend does something that doesn’t make a lot of sense to other people do you try to step in and rescue your friend yeah yeah i totally do that okay i i definitely like well you don’t understand this side of it like oh yeah even other people that are you know i don’t want to keep bringing up this thing with like my daughter or whatever with her struggles but when there’s judgment from other members in the family about why is she like this and i can’t understand why she’s doing this and i’m like i do understand i think you know the the mental health aspect the emotional dysregulation the inability to see past her feelings or outside of her feelings everything gets filtered through this feelings lens she has so i understand it and i try to help them understand it i don’t i mean it doesn’t take away my anger or frustration with the situation but i do really wish other people would get it’s not a choice or it’s not like a moral failing or something i don’t know yeah and i’ve heard that from you too it’s it’s good it’s like some may see it as like a devil’s advocate thing but i think it’s just a very open-minded plus you have a lot of education in this area i i wish it changed the way i could do something about it because it doesn’t because i’m still feel like i need to act from a place of you’re just an [ _ ] like the solution i think is honestly still for me oh my boundary side of it to still you know act as if you just need to go do something else somewhere else being an [ _ ] feels better sometimes for a minute uh yeah in a minute uh so when your friend’s mood is bad does it affect your mood yeah we already brought that like at the fair yep and again like and i’m not trying to like cover up and say that you know this isn’t for how i look like i don’t give a [ _ ] how i look but it’s better today right and i say that maybe to provide hope that it can get better or it looks if it looked if 100 was terrible and it used to look like a hundred it might look like 30 or 40 today like it’s it’s a lot better but it’s still there like i’m well aware of it and see it it’s in the background yeah so when it happens my instinct is there and i go into that mode and i’m like oh my god i gotta we gotta all be having a good time i can’t just let this be but i can remind myself okay i know what that is i know that’s mine like i gotta step back i gotta and most of the time i can usually like okay i’m just gonna enjoy myself like that’s all i can do so there’s a lot of ability through coaching myself and skills i’ve learned and honestly one of the biggest parts just being aware and knowing what that is because before it was just oh my god now i feel bad too and i got to do something because i can’t feel bad that’s not okay and just being aware like oh no this this is a part of me that needs to gain value and acceptance from others and and i don’t need that i’m okay yeah i get that i still i still accidentally people please you know especially like in volunteer situations like yeah that’s a great idea let me help hold on wait a second i don’t have enough time for that you’re just gonna watch my kids well and and i struggle with this the parental responsibilities versus people pleasing right like there’s what i believe the world expects of me and what my duty is as a parent i have to be at every sporting game and i have to be here and i have to do this and i have to show up in this way for this situation versus like not all that’s what i want to do but there’s this weird fine line of like some of these things and i don’t always know there’s some i don’t want to do but i’m going to feel better about doing later or i’m going to at least feel worse if i don’t do even though what i want to do is sit home and not go to that game so it’s like this fine line of like i’m not sure which one this is is this that i really don’t want to go and i shouldn’t or is this i don’t want to go but it’s going to feel better if i go that’s tricky [ _ ] attic brain yeah it’s all [ __ ] up just addicts is it everybody because it’s probably everybody but billy would say attic brain and he’s not here so i had to throw that out there for him little essence of billy uh do you struggle with perfectionism i need that cologne

he’s got that matthew mcconaughey draw like i need some of that all right all right all right [ __ ] addicts what was the question do you struggle with perfectionism do i struggle with perfectionism uh you know what’s the old saying only on days that end and why yes only when i’m awake actually that’s not true because i’m like i didn’t sleep right last night

wow i’m a perfectionist even when i’m asleep hmm that’s [ __ ] up do you worry excessively

yes yes and and you know lately a lot of ruminating thoughts of terrible things i have and i don’t want to oh god i don’t even want to share this because i feel like other people are going to then have a thought about it and it’s just awful i have these weird intrusive thoughts from time to time of just like gruesome horrific [ _ ] worst thing you could imagine scenes happening to like my kids or loved ones or stuff and i’m just like what and the [ _ ] makes me think of that yeah that happens to like me too that is the curse of having a colorful imagination i think is it yeah oh god why can’t i like paint pictures or something i know well yeah i just have to catch myself but yeah violence towards my children i’m like and if i think about it too hard am i gonna make it happen that’s my self-centered weirdness oh yeah that’s great i’m like oh that needs to just [ _ ] off somewhere and never come back i blame like tv too sometimes because i’ll i don’t watch a lot of tv but if i’m passing through the room and there’s something like weird going on and it catches my eye and then it gets in the imagination uh cycle you know like now i gotta think of that thanks so so in a picture like this happens just randomly at the most dumb ass times my kid is like on the soccer field seven years old having a good time with the other little seven and six year olds and i’m like oh my god the ball is gonna get kicked real hard by accident somehow and it’s gonna just take his head clear off and i’m like wow but that’s well that’s kind of funny right because it’s kind of hilarious to imagine looney tunes right and it went that way on purpose but like it’s that but really gruesome and horrific and i’m just like what in the [ _ ] like this is the most natural joyful event ever and i’m sitting here with this crazy you know catastrophe catastrophizing uh the event weird yeah but yes yes i worry a bit yeah a lot i know if i could just clear out my like rolodex of gruesome images like i don’t really need that like who put rape in here i don’t need that you know like yeah i’m i’m i’m worried i’m not doing this quiz right enough is that does that tell you okay you need to know about mike yeah i tricked you too i mean it’s kind of a longer quiz sorry but let’s think of about a shorter quiz with two-part questions we’ll just think about it that way um that doesn’t make any sense do family members tell you that you do way too much to help someone you know that is addicted to drugs or alcohol or actually do they call you a codependent i think we can also insert it says do family members tell you that you do way too much to help someone you know that is addicted to drugs and alcohol slash mental health or do family members actually call you codependent no no and i will that’s not going to be something i get accused of my uh my interaction with the world is not from a place of doing a lot i would say like i have more of a low energy mood that i go into when things go bad so all my extra work and stress and and anxiety is all in my head and nothing actually happens so i’m not like going out of my way to do all is there a mentally codependent versus a physically coded i bet you that’s unstudied action-oriented codependent yeah but nobody nobody’s gonna be like oh my god he does way too much

but if you look at my calendar it does seem like i do too much it’s interesting i’ll give that a no then after you compromise and give your friend what he or she wants do you feel a lot of anger and resentment yes in past situations i’m thinking about more specifically here like because it wasn’t a compromise it was this is what i need from you and they’re like well this is what i’m gonna do and i’m like all right i’ll take it as long as you’ll have me i’ll accept that um so yeah pissed because that’s not what was going to work for me and i knew that and we were really just getting back together to get back apart in the next week when it happened again and i couldn’t tolerate it um today yeah i mean if if i if i give in on what i want yes there’s definitely anger but i don’t do that as frequently do you spend a significant portion of your time worrying about what your addicted friend or family member should do and you can substitute the word addicted with whatever yeah this this quiz was definitely angled towards addiction i would say thinking about yeah you specific yeah cause you’re one of those mental codependents thinking about how things could have went different how this situation should have went different what what they should be doing what i can do to help them get to that place or make them get to that place i say help because it sounds nicer but really it’s like how can i force this how can i make it what about you um significant no i maybe i do i do maybe i definitely put time effort thought and resources into trying to make things go the way i want them to so i feel like that just fits in as a more general version of this i don’t i don’t know if i i don’t i’m not going to sign up for that one i don’t spend a significant portion of your time i’m i’m a little more self-centered these days do you always make sure that your needy friends needs are taken care of and then realize that your needs really are never addressed not often but in times of crisis i am realizing that uh i i put myself in a position to try to do everything i could for an individual and you know really it took a a a drastic event to kind of stop for a second and you know slow down like barbiturates and realize oh [ _ ] like my my health is not being taken care of like i’m missing all these things that i do to take care of myself you know the self-care stuff because i’m having to run to do this for someone else and and that’s i think that’s tricky with a kid like to know where that is like at some to some level like they couldn’t drive themselves to things that i thought would be useful for them and all that so i felt like i had to but i definitely did not want to because i i mean just thinking about the idea of like oh taking them to get emergency care in a crisis and taking them to this place and having to sit with them in these places because the adolescent can’t be there without an adult and it’s like i don’t want to [ _ ] do any of that but i did think it was the next right thing to do but yeah missing out on all the stuff i felt like i need to do for my life so they were they were coming first in that situation and that’s tricky right can you imagine going out in the world and telling like society yeah i need to come first not my kids like i need to put my [ _ ] yeah that way to fly oxygen mass going first and they’ll all maybe agree with it in sentiment but then when they see the situation they’re like well you should have done this oh yeah you should have did this that’s your kid well you [ _ ] do it then if you like it so much like you want to save the children why don’t you do some work and shut the [ _ ] up sorry that was me that came from codependent area i feel shame um see do you believe that you are totally dedicated to the welfare of a person you know who has an addiction problem slash mental health not right now okay but a week ago probably doing a lot of time googling trying to find answers trying to see if things were possible see if financial situations would work out for certain things eh okay when looking back at your relationship within the last year is it true that you can’t remember many happy moments yes yes you cannot remember many happy moments correct not with that particular individual there wasn’t much happy no is it difficult to determine how you feel about something and express it hmm not so much i mean there’s times when i am hesitant to express how i feel about something because i think it sounds ugly uh or sounds like that’s not what the world wants to hear but you determined it you just chose not to express it yeah well i still usually do express it in some places but it’s hard to like i gotta set myself up like here we go i’m gonna say this it’s going to land how it lands but this is my truth okay do you frequently hear excuses from the other person about fulfilling their own responsibilities [ _ ] yes they did i do the there is no ability for any personal responsibility from that person none like literally zero do you feel that you should be responsible for how others act no okay but that’s funny because we do put on parents that how your kid turns out is something you did right yeah it’s a fine line i mean there’s some of what you did in there but you know look at twins and tell me why they come out different and then tell me how much parents really affect them right so i you know but that that is an old uh thought in our society yeah yeah kids are what you make them out to be and you did this to them you babied them you spoiled them you you [ _ ] them all up by making them happy somehow yeah well my instinct is to judge too and i see then i’m like wait a minute i wouldn’t i would like that if somebody did it to me you gave your kids a good life that’s where you [ _ ] went wrong [ __ ] we want our kids to have it better than us but then we’re pissed when they do have it better than us huh

i agree with you is it difficult for you to say no when another person asks for help it really depends um i mean there’s still a strong feeling that comes up in me like oh my god you suck if you say no if you don’t step up and do this but there is also a strong part of me today that’s like this is where my time goes and a lot of times i have excuses because i have [ _ ] already planned like most of my life is planned out i mean we talked before the episode about what my next week looks like and like if you could find five minutes in there good for you right like it’s planned out all day every day through next saturday and i can tell you right now if somebody asked me to do something next sunday i ain’t [ _ ] doing it that’s my day like i’m not doing it i’m i already know this so i have some boundaries yeah i have a boundary around my time now it’s very limited when you try to change a situation that your friend is involved in do you feel remorse later for trying to change it yeah that’s an interesting question i i really don’t know i know i think i would need an example yeah that’s like let’s skip that one like say you tried to make their situation better do you feel bad about it like i’m maybe you feel like you were trying to force them yeah i don’t i don’t think so i mean i can’t picture it okay have you ever tried to orchestrate finances even through borrowing money to help someone else pay their debts or contribute to their drug problem hmm i don’t think so but i’m also funny about money too that seems kind of like a privileged question well and and so recently thinking about what might help my situation uh i was like well we’ll send her to one of those six-month wilderness you know change your life kind of camps and it’s like fifty thousand dollars and i was like yeah i just can’t you’re gonna have to learn the hard way sorry yeah that’s [ _ ] i guess only rich people get healthy yeah well that’s why i was thinking about this question i was like there’s no orchestrating on this level like i can give you 20 bucks you know like do you need a sandwich yeah exactly i got some turkey in my fridge do you notice that your time is spent more on another person than taking care of your own goals in life now i would say usually no i did just have those couple weeks where i would say yeah like it was impeding on all the things like the job the self-care the everything um right this moment no no i don’t okay this so this this quiz results will be interesting because it’s like old jason new jason emergency jason you know there’s kind of mixed results but we’re almost done well and i think that’s a good point you know for the people listening here is that like this isn’t a stagnant state like i think we have a standard operating place and we hope to improve that and and change some things around but yeah when our internal emotional resourcing is you know strapped to its limits and and like taxed and overwhelmed we’re going to be a little different and and we’re going to be a little different in these situations than others and i don’t think the goal is ever like i sit here with my legs crossed floating like nothing affects me like i don’t think that is ever really my goal i i honestly let’s be true it is my goal but i have some level of acceptance that that is not going to [ _ ] happen and so you know if we can be easy on ourselves like we are gonna fluctuate we are gonna fall into old patterns and really to look at myself today and say okay i’m not at that hundred level of pain and and self-harm for helping others i’m at the 30 or 40 and maybe i recognize after two weeks that this is really taxing and awful for my life and i have to change it then after two years right or like that’s good that’s [ _ ] good like that’s not bad that’s not failure that’s not oh here i am again that’s oh [ _ ] there’s something different happening here yeah it’s some of the old behavior but like there’s a lot different happening and and that’s a good point like we’re not in one static place of codependency ever you can have seasons seasons of codependence we’re entering a season of codependency i was in a winter i’m falling out of it some are better than others spring into action anyway uh do you lose time at work due to another person’s drug or mental health problems [ _ ] i did recently not sure i had much of a choice about that what do you do when it’s a minor and you can’t just make them do it themselves like the hospital literally says you have to [ _ ] be here 24 hours a day yeah i didn’t want to i wouldn’t have chosen to going there my idea in my head was you’re getting dropped the [ _ ] off and i’m out of here like i am not sitting through all this i hate hospitals i can’t stand it i don’t care how much of society says be with your kid in their time of need [ _ ] all that you go be with them i can’t do it i’m leaving but then they told me i couldn’t so i want to say like my active decision was to do the healthy thing for me and not be quote-unquote co-dependent but i didn’t have a choice so that feels unfair okay they were like we’re gonna call cps if you’re not here i was like good tell him to come [ __ ] sit with her

threaten me yeah we’re not i mean sorry we know this community this you know where we live here is not set up to support mental health um have close friends or family members asked you why you are still friends with another person i can’t picture that today and in my current situation or at any point today but definitely in my life people were like why are you still with that girl that you break up with every third day why do you keep going back to her when she’s sleeping with 14 other guys what’s up with that i’m like i love her oh not really i hate myself that’s the real answer uh here’s a good one do you have difficulty sleeping due to the problems with another person ah [ _ ] yeah i so i’m a guy who has had a lot of difficulty falling asleep throughout my life and have had some freedom from that at times and and you know a lot of times now through meditation practice i can lay there and say i was at at 9 00 pm if i had laid down i had a [ _ ] passed out i almost passed out sitting up right but then at like 10 30 when it’s actually bedtime i’m like well here i am just laying here what is this right where’d that tired go bring it back um but i’ve had that you know through meditation well i’ll just lay here and focus on the breath that’s comfortable right i don’t have to do anything nothing’s expected of me i can just relax and we’ll see what happens that very you know that nice open mr rogers kind of view of the world we’ll just lay here and relax and see what happens and maybe we’ll paint a little tree like bob ross or something um but yeah lately that has not [ _ ] worked and the meditation practice too has i feel like has suffered like there’s just so many intrusive thoughts of well you could have did this in this situation and that would have did this and maybe you should like maybe this would uh maybe this is how you need to move forward when it does go all good like yeah a lot of trouble fall asleep again you have to fall asleep uh not lately but i have you know i have my seasons you know but things have been going okay lately actually right at the start of school you know i almost anticipated it you know the anxiety of a new routine and like oh i hope they’re happy i hope everybody’s healthy healthy especially this year so but you know after it was a couple days of it and then i’m i’m usually pretty tired by the end of the day so grateful i can sleep well this is my snow cover at home sorry i don’t know that song but no it just it i think or else i’d sing with you it’s a great analogy for like just when things are sad sometimes like it’s this is my december right even though i think it should be like my january december sounds better in the song i get it but like december’s got christmas and [ _ ] that’s all yeah parties and like it’s more like this cheese logs january like this is my empty i think it’s february for me football season ends football season ends but there’s valentine’s day and then it’s like valentine’s day and president’s day weekend in february singles awareness day [ _ ] is valentine’s day you are pessimistic i don’t celebrate valentine’s day that’s ridiculous you have kids though don’t you send little hearts to your kids that’s my mom my mom will send valentine’s cards to my kids i’m like what the [ _ ] is wrong with you i love my mom but and look is that stuff thoughtful absolutely but i i just i don’t know she’s from the hallmark era where hallmark convinced everybody you’re a shitty person if you don’t think of people inside my home i really worked at hallmark yeah she had a part-time job at hallmark so yeah i’m also dude convincing an entire universe that you’re a [ _ ] shitty person and you should feel ashamed of yourself if you don’t buy our cards and send them to people to let them know they thought of it it’s outrageous i so i don’t buy cards that much anymore today and every time i go i’m i get such sticker shock like four dollars and fifty cents for a card are you kidding me i i can’t i go home and draw a picture and tuck a picture of my kids in there and be like here you go dear listener if you are not ashamed of yourself for not telling everyone about our podcast you should be you should definitely feel like you should just tell everyone about our podcast and you should probably be donating like sarah and julie thank you sarah and julie uh because you know if i could convince everybody what hallmark did i would we would be you know what you need to give this christmas season recovery sort of there you go under every tree just do it before christmas do it now mm-hmm early what’s our next big holiday halloween yeah it’s already halloween trick or treat dress up as recovery sort of i don’t know what that looks like we got to work on this all right have you ever wondered why you are still having a relationship with a certain friend not not so much now but yeah like in my relationships with women it’s like you know the friends are asking you why you keep going back every third day to get back with them again and i’m thinking the same i know this is gonna [ _ ] end horribly again in three days why the [ __ ] do i keep i just have to i can’t not here’s your last question

have you ever had a strong feeling i thought you were going to say a threesome i don’t know why have you ever had a threesome um is that a codependency i don’t know did the the other person uh make you like was it a was it a i don’t really want to have a threesome but they said they would leave if i didn’t invite another person into our bedroom or couch or pool or hot tub or wherever good question but now you can hashtag this podcast with threesome and see what should you get yeah have you ever had a strong feeling that you are or were in a co-dependent relationship yes yes i mean yeah strong feeling or new like once i hate that point it’s like that point of uh drug use or that point of codependency where you’re no longer in denial you actually know you’re like oh yeah i don’t this isn’t even a question or maybe this is i am and i still can’t stop it that’s a shitty point so uh you probably know the result it’s you may have already been told you fit the codependency definition you may already realize that life is tough with other people and all you want to help geez that was written weird but you get sucked into helping them and it seems to overtake your life you recognize that the real you has been suppressed by the relationship you have had and you want a better way it goes on what’s the opposite of suppression expression suppression uh i want to express myself yeah yeah i want to express myself express yours we had a lot of songs today why do i feel so singy this sunday morning i don’t know um yeah so yeah i mean i kind of knew coming in that there was definitely codependency in my story there’s definitely a lot of codependent relationships definitely a lot of low self-worth where i gained value from who i was with in fact i i mean just remembering back like being around you know an environment maybe a work environment where there’s multiple prospects for possible shooters god there’s a lot of chicks that i’d like to bang right let’s just say in layman’s terms in layman’s terms um and and remembering like i had my ideas of like oh yeah this is the one i think is probably you know the rankings in my head of of what’s most appealing to me not to rank people not for that that purpose but just for me right like well this would probably be the ideal and then this one if it’s a nice second prize i guess whatever i don’t that sounds [ _ ] terrible i know and you’re looking at me sorry anyway but i can remember that value judgment switching depending on what the group of guys in that environment said right like if their general consensus was that my number five was really the number one oh she’s the one oh she yeah everybody wants to be there i’m like oh well she’s definitely the number one then i gotta go there and and i like that’s the story of my life even when i came in recovery there was a girl who was like the it girl around my general area and i was like i gotta get with her like that is that’s gonna make me have arrived right if i can be there that really tells everybody who the [ _ ] i am yeah does it really i mean it didn’t apparently in your codependency what i told everybody was they had competition and they were still going to try to do it that’s what i told everybody there’s one thing in the way i don’t know so uh yeah i i knew there was codependency there um actually through this conversation pretty happy to see the growth like i see a lot of growth in me where it’s not really there or not there as drastically most of the time it is nice to like review the before and after see how far you’ve come yeah yeah healthy ish this is a good segue why don’t we talk about solutions oh are there solutions so solutions to codependency is awareness and education thanks for listening to this podcast tell your friends yeah uh knowing your needs like unsubscribe good job um knowing your needs and boundaries that’s such boring work but it pays off oh it’s such a hard knowing your needs and boundaries reviewing your relationships like i don’t know what you do but i actually i literally have a journal and periodically like do the written out work and organize like my needs and boundaries and you know do you do it that way that’s just how that’s how i process it no and and so my jury is still out like on the suggestions we’re given right now i don’t know and maybe this works in tandem but i don’t know if just okay i know my boundaries that’ll make me healthier i don’t know if acting on them is what brings the feeling of feeling better about ourselves later or if we need to feel different first before we can act on them like i’m not sure which order that works in and maybe it’s both because every time i ask an or question the answer is truly yes it’s the only real answer to any ore question yes but but i do i think they can work in tandem like as i start to feel different i can start to take actions that are more in line with my boundaries which makes me start to feel even more different which makes me able to take more changes in my boundary work right so i think it can work like that but i’m not sure in that beginning stage that i am capable of doing anything different like even when i knew like i said that point of like knowing what’s going on being able to recognize hey drugs or this relationship these are a [ _ ] problem i really have to do something about it totally incapable of doing that from the place i am in and the way i feel like there is no alternative to this besides jumping off a [ _ ] building that’s the only way out of this at this point so i i mean i’m not saying knowing is a bad thing like i think it can help to bring awareness and and help us to get to that point but i don’t know that we can just well now i know my boundaries i’ll just go out today and act on them and and i won’t worry about how i feel afterwards yeah i can see your point because when i you know when i first started recovery i didn’t even know what the term boundary meant it took like a lot of like mental massaging to get to this point like it you know years is that like does it come with a happy ending is that the mental masturbation the mental massage but i mean all these concepts they get kind of thrown at you in your first year and i was like i didn’t know what the terms were what it meant it had to it took a while to get where i’m at now so yeah to take someone to this happy ending you got i’m gonna tell everybody jenny had a mental massage and had a happy ending off the rails went totally off the rails so in addition to knowing your needs and boundaries knowing your feelings so you know like i remember in the beginning too just you know beginning of recovery that we started our group meeting with how are you feeling and you had to come up with like a real feeling because people like tired bored or whatever behind like you had to come up with a real feeling excited scared disappointed tired and bored are real feelings but they’re more like physical exhaustion feelings maybe bored would be but people people couldn’t say tired you couldn’t just stay tired i’m bored well that’s just boring but come up with a better word i’m not tired i’m exhausted okay you’re exhausted but isn’t there a feeling associated with that like i feel uh um i don’t know desperate what if your emotional or mental state is exhausted not just physically like there’s many days i physically do nothing but at the end of the day i’m drained emotionally worn out that’s three words just the thought anyway just a thought yeah i don’t i don’t know but you know i think that like there’s it’s that feelings poster there’s one here right over there and it has all the little different feelings words and so those lists benefited me to know my feelings yeah and and i think knowing your feelings is is really important and knowing you know your bodily experience at any point in time big proponent of body scanning for whatever is going on i think though we tell a lot of people oh you need to identify your feelings and feel them and know them and we don’t give them the resources to learn how to do that because a lot of us are either societally cultured growing up men to not feel and not be in touch with any of that or completely ignore it to the point where we don’t have any practice with it and so we need to actually teach people how it’s not just what are you feeling it’s like okay let’s start with some exercises and feeling and keep practicing them until you learn feelings and maybe that’s exercises of just squeezing your hands and and noticing what goes on in your body when you do that maybe that’s progressive muscle relaxation maybe that’s sitting still and body scanning often enough and frequently enough that it becomes like you start to feel something because a lot of people don’t feel anything at first you’re like i don’t feel nothing i’m just sitting here it’s weird and then like you do that for three months and then you’re like all right i kind of feel a tingling today it’s weird it’s tingling and then from there it builds right maybe that’s practice uh kind of like feeling charades like what would someone look like what position would they take what facial expressions would they make if they were angry or sad or empty or hollow or right they were all negative emotions i noticed uh that’s the ones i go to but but you know through practicing like the bodily positions and the facial expressions you start to take on those feelings too and so you get an idea of what their experience is like so i just if we’re out here telling people they need to feel let’s practice with them let’s help them let’s teach them how to feel i think that’s a thing we don’t [ _ ] know and then people just shout at us to feel our feelings and we’re like i don’t know i don’t know what i feel nobody ever showed me how i do it because of you dad um yeah i did it because of you dad good point um people who are codependent need to basically re-parent themselves you know um encourage nurture love give yourself the love that you didn’t get maybe as a kid yeah and that comes a lot i think from the attachment categories right we we talk about the codependents and i think we would look at them as the insecure anxious attachment as me type um where it’s very like i’m not okay if i am not sure that we are okay and you know even when things seem like they’re okay i’m gonna ask anyway because i’m hyper vigilant to the cues that it’s not it’s like a security system on hot you know red alert at all [ _ ] times in your body like something’s wrong he left a bite of his peanut butter and jelly sandwich in the bottom of the bag after lunch i know it’s because he doesn’t love me right like or she i don’t know gender but yeah i guess to summarize that’s a season summer summer ride stop uh stop seeking external validation and oh yeah just stop yeah don’t do drugs drugs are bad codependency is bad just stop so yeah i mean like if if you can achieve that super but you know strive towards stop seeking external validation i’d like to insert here too so this week coincidentally i got a call from a friend who has done a lot of personal codependency work she was calling me you know about something and i said hey this week’s podcast is about codependency any tips for the audience and i liked her summary so i wanted to read it uh one no one is responsible for you but you two you can’t fix other people three look at you through your eyes and not through other people’s eyes that’s dangerous when you hate yourself i i like the idea in general but in the beginning you’re quick i never even thought of that and four don’t let other people fix you um but i want to be fixed i don’t know but no this is great i think this is valuable information and a good time it’s always a good time i hope you guys are co-dependent on my podcast

anyway um yeah no uh you know from my experience and and life i would say if what we call in 12-step recovery outside help is available i guess other people in other forms of recovery might just call that help not outside help um yeah if that’s available if that’s something you have access to go get it man

there’s so much that therapy can help with just having somebody to [ __ ] talk to sometimes somebody to vent to a place where you can say the ugly truth that you don’t really want to say in the rest of society like we need that um if that’s not available find people who are healthier or who look like they’re doing some other stuff and just work with them right buy codependency or or you know self-love workbooks i’m sure that shit’s out there i don’t have any recommendations because i have not done it that way but like i know all these things are out here and all of it can help like the more positivity and focus we put on awareness and finding information and feeling better like the better off we’re gonna be so please don’t don’t live miserable man life is just too goddamn short anything else no thank you all right have a good week uh try to be less i don’t say try to be less co-dependent try to be more in love with yourself and self-validating to the best of your ability at this particular moment and celebrate uh those victories where you have them and you know do the best you can until you can do better all right take it easy bye

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