194: All Paths – Everything You Wanted to Know 2 (Sort Of)


The All Paths recovery program is back again for a take 2. Since the last time they were on, they have grown immensely. We talk about what the program of All Paths means. We explore what it means to work the All Paths program, what it might look like at a meeting, and how All Paths is incorporating community into the program itself. Listen in as we talk with Steven, Matt, and Angelo and find out how to learn more about All Paths.

In this episode:

⁠⁠Original All Paths episode⁠

⁠⁠Xylazine episode⁠

⁠All Paths Facebook⁠

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Transcript:

recovery sort of is a podcast where we discuss the recovery and addiction topics from the perspective of people living in long-term recovery this podcast does not intend to represent the views of any particular group organization or Fellowship the views expressed here are solely the opinion of its contributors be advised there may be strong language or topics of an adult nature

[Music]

welcome back it’s recovery sort of I’m Jason and I have a path of recovery I think and I’m Billy from a person in long-term recovery I’m Jenny I’m also a person in long-term recovery and we got a whole slew of people here today a first for Recovery sort over six of us in here so uh we’re going to be talking about the all-pass recovery program and I don’t want to say a whole lot about that I just want to introduce people so we got Steve and Matt and Angelo and uh they’re all here and so I’m going to let them kind of take over for a little while and tell us about all Paz recovery and what they think and then we’ll have a [ __ ] ton of questions I’m going to go first though because I’m gonna there’s not enough mics or chairs and uh but I just I just want to go first I really wanted to have Matt and Steve on because um we’ve had an all paths show before but that was like two years ago it was a guy named Matt yeah there is a requirement in all pairs that the guy that talks about it right it needs

anything right yeah okay no mats and all that no wait there is no maybe you need to change your name to mat yeah now we’re on to something um so I mean I I don’t think in recovery sort of History we’ve done two episodes on the same program but the programs changed it’s been two years you know it’s changed so I hang out at the recovery center the voice of Recovery Center it’s kind of like a clubhouse in the area so like you know I meet people in different recovery programs and different paths and I kept hearing about this all Pats meeting and I met Matt I actually met Matt volunteering at a fundraiser but then I would see him because he was working there and I would see him like every Thursday but I’m also hearing a buzz about the all paths meeting people going people like oh man you know that’s been so good for me and sending people to this meeting or or people just passing by like yo I’ll see it all paths and I’m like what is all the buzz about this all pass um and I would say in Cecil County it is predominantly n a like that’s the most popular meeting but I would say all paths is a close second is is na biggest surrounding bigger than a a you think I thought with all these old white dudes it would definitely that’s what I thought too N A has like you N A has like 50 people meetings any of the AAA meetings I went to were like 12 to 15. Never As epic as like n a meetings like 100 people meeting never happens they’re like VFW Halls yes the same eight guys drinking

ever had as like I heard about smart or celebration it’s like like a dozen people okay sorry um anyway so yeah I would see Matt routinely and he’s like you know like hey when you come into my meeting I was like oh one day but my routine’s pretty full so but I was so curious because of all the stuff I had heard about all paths so I did go to a meeting and um it was really awesome and I would say that like the vibe and the energy I felt in the room was not something I have felt in a recovery meeting in a long time and I don’t even feel that in my own home group meeting now I still go to my Buddhist recovery meeting because that’s really what I need but when I went into all paths first of all I felt lucky to get a chair a cozy chair like it was full the space was full and it was just like kind of the the rawness the realness of the room and The Compassion so like I actually got goosebumps in the meeting and I kind of wanted to cry like I wanted to slow time down it was that good and I was like God this is like filling the cracks of the recovery community that we needed and um I’m just going to go ahead and say that all paths is love that’s what it is and all past the recovery lead to love yeah I mean all pads is love I was like this this meeting is what I think any recovery Community Hub needs and if I didn’t have my busy family life and responsibilities there and only time for one meeting I would go to that too because well you guys don’t need to say anything Jenny just did your whole commercial advertising I’m going to turn it over to Steve and Matt and Angela can I can I can I do something and I I don’t mean to do this I know it’s not the focus what would make you say I go to my recovery Dharma meeting each week or my Buddhist recovery type meeting because that’s what I need but then talk about how you went in this program and got really emotional and connected to it and you felt like so alive and like love and I don’t know I’m like well why wouldn’t that be what you need yeah it’s a fair question I have thought about that too but see I started the Buddhist recovery meeting so I kind of have a leadership responsibility there and I really think that the Eightfold Path is my uh path to not just recovery but life like studying the afo path is for me and yes I can do that outside of an all pads meeting but now I also have sports on Wednesday night so I can’t what would Sid authors say about his leadership role as it comes to Buddhism Buddha Buddha oh what would what would he say about his leadership role in responsibility well that’s true but I’m also living in this world yeah I’ll stop picking on you yeah living in this world of responsibilities I don’t want if I walk I’m working on it though then Dave is good for pointing out that like you got to watch the tree on the side of the road while you’re driving it does matter yeah yeah he’s good at that I am kind of I’ve been turning over like hey you can lead a meeting hey you can organize this hey you can do that I was just curious it was interesting to see you talk so passionately about the feeling you experienced there but then say this other place that doesn’t have that is what you need I was like what makes you think that all right thank you doctor

uh but that’s all I wanted to say I just I’m like it was it’s I’ve been watching all paths from the periphery I only dip my toe in with one meeting like super impressive and I’m glad we could do this show you used a word when you were describing them right as we turn it over to them uh I’ll tell you in a sec and when I did a search I was like oh all Pez recovery what do I need to know before I go in here is there other versions of this are there other things to talk about like so I did a Google search I just put altez recovery and the top search link that comes up is called recovery always but it makes the acronym raw and I was just like I like that why didn’t they use raw that’s kind of awesome I hope they get into and you said wrong yeah yeah let’s talk about it wrong all right so yeah let’s let’s let’s see you and Matt and Steve though because he’s the first one to get involved with this

uh so like they said my name is Steve um basically I was asked to choose a pathway of recovery uh in my job and um I hadn’t really actually been in recovery I’ve been clean but I hadn’t actually been in recovery so a friend of mine Matt that you guys met he uh he was doing the meeting called all pass for a little bit and then just dropped off and so um I just I didn’t fit in the the in a box and I didn’t fit in the AAA box so I said well you know let’s let’s Roman does all passing try to try to make a whole new different way of recovery and so I did it in the basement for you know probably about six months by myself uh just doing meetings just me talking to probably about six to ten individuals I had a really die hard people that were coming to each meeting every night every Wednesday night and I just we didn’t really start necessarily growing as big to where we are now until uh Matt got involved and I’ll let you go from there so like he said when I got involved there was no literature there was no like floor mats of the meetings we’d go in there with a small little reading about all Pathways because there’s people out there that do use a medical marijuana Suboxones methadone and I and I’m a person I was going to several NA meetings and um not that I discourage anybody from going to those meetings but uh I was watching this person share a meeting and she was coming up on a celebration they found out she was on maintenance and they there was several people that were coming to walk out on her and devastated her for her first year they were coming to the meeting just to get up and walk out and it really crushed me and that same night I came to Stevens because I practiced today when I that was my pathway right and um so I came Steven that night I was like look I want to go so that me and Stephen really buckle down into it um we wrote all of our literature wow we’ve now introduced steps to our our literature we got Traditions to our literature okay um we’re introducing like we call it a Big Brother Big Sister program wow so which is pretty much a sponsor okay okay um we did a mission statement um we are now fully copyrighted damn we are also trademarked um we also have nine meetings a week damn okay throughout throughout Baltimore County Harford County and Cecil County wow so and now I’m in talks of maybe moving into Frederick County um so there’s some things that are in the worst um a couple other things that we’re really getting involved with um we don’t not only do meetings we do hikes every other week we do recovery hikes um we got people that are very educated like with nature that come on as hives and educate people about nature and get out there talk about our recovery and just have a good time it’s basically a walking meeting 100 right so then we’re getting people like a lot of people our average media our big meeting average is about 50 people wow um so then we getting people that want to be involved they’re like we want to help like how do we do service work how do we do this so August 12th we’re going to start feeding homeless in our local community every every Saturday so that’s something that we’re going to Target into this week we need to do more as a community versus just being a meeting right right because we want to be all around support for everybody because we don’t take just drug addicts we don’t take just alcoholics we don’t we take mental health like we take all the above it doesn’t matter what you’re struggling with we’re here to help right and how our typical meetings run we do our literature just like every other meeting we discuss it we usually pick a topic and a topic usually recovery related and we sit there and discuss that topic so everybody can share their strengths and what they’ve done through situations so we try to keep the War Stories out right so it’s not triggering for anybody right and we try not to give no medical advice because some people use the medical marijuana pathway I practice absence right you know like so I don’t want to be triggered by your pathway so like you try to keep some of that stuff out but if it works in certain situations I think they need to be shared about because we don’t want nobody to feel like they’re not comfortable or welcome right right because this for everybody no I get it man I I want to I think the first thing I want to say is just like when I was not as informed or when I didn’t understand as much or when I was more ignorant to the world right I I think I’ve made the joke that people on maintenance maybe don’t belong in the typical N A or a a and you know they could probably just take the steps and go start a meeting for themselves but they won’t because they’re not actually in recovery right that kind of joke and I’ve made it so I’m going to sit here and own it right like I don’t want to fake the funk um but knowing what I know today the fact of like what it would actually take to think about starting a new program or writing literature for it even just parts of it like what a [  ] task to to take under your wing right and for you guys to take that on and like start doing this is just [  ] incredible to me so AE plus job not that the matter is coming from me I’m just nobody sitting over here but that’s awesome and thank you for like supporting the community did you have a vision when you went into it or is it just kind of organically growing more and more we come had a vision because we didn’t want to be segregated we don’t consider self a maintenance meeting right we’re made we’re a maintenance acceptance meeting okay we wanted a safe place for people to come that were on major maintenance at that point in time I was actually myself I wasn’t on methadone maintenance um and medical cannabis I still am on medical cannabis I have been off of methadone maintenance for probably almost a year and a half by now nice congratulations um yeah it was tough but right well worth it um and like not to knock anybody that is still going on methadone and going to the clinic and things whatever it takes to keep your life manageable and keep you safe I’m all for it well you know and and I don’t sit here and say that there’s like I don’t know if there’s a one right way or a best way or any of that anymore but like okay in my mind yeah I am thinking there’s a little more freedom off of the maintenance treatments than there is on them and that’s probably where I hope to get to at some point if I’m working my way up right so so maybe there is levels or tears but either way the whole idea in my head is that we call ourselves recover ring as in the active process of it and aren’t people taking those steps doing something like that’s an active process of getting better in my mind so why are we not calling that recovering you know um because there’s been several times that we shared the definition of recovery in our meetings right because it’s just the process of moving forward yeah I’m glad I’m glad you brought that up actually because I know you know if I was to share my personal views of my recovery I’m I practice abstinence and and my personal opinion is that an individual is not clean until they’re clean okay but I’m still an active member of this organization because I don’t think anybody should that’s my right pathway that’s what works for me I don’t think that you know maintenance works for me that’s the kind of addict I know I am I know myself this process of recovery and change for myself is a self-actualization process so for me that is my view but a that does not necessarily I feel like give me the right to push that on anybody else because it might not be for anybody else and B I don’t think any human being should ever be shunned shamed or chased away or chased back out simply because they don’t recover the same way I do and that’s and that’s kind of amazing like we have a lot of debates on here about 12-step programs in general and like it works for me well my belief at this point in my life is that like I think they have been useful but I think because of their holding on to not changing where they came from and the fact that we’ve got some newer information in science and newer understandings of the brain I think there’s places where there keeping people from maybe finding different or or possible more useful information at times right just because of the way they were set up and the way they worked originally it’s also

also not right you know excusing to my language but this ain’t your grandma’s heroine right right and and you know and we don’t know what those founding members that we put so much respect into we don’t know what they would have done if life-saving medications were available back then we didn’t have them we don’t know what their thoughts would have been on them as far as the program goes right but just in my mind the fact that like you guys today Angelo you’re you’re a newer member who is probably in my mind been exposed to typical and traditional 12-step programs right and then and then you know Matt you’re talking about going to these traditional programs and like choosing to move away from that because there was something that didn’t feel good about it for you and like to me this is the people I’m talking about when I’m saying these 12 steps are pushing some people in the wrong direction sometimes and I think they’re doing some harm and like I don’t know it’s a joy to see that you guys felt just naturally pulled to a place that felt more inclusive and accepting well I’ll be completely honest with you um there wasn’t 12 steps to push me out I got involved with overstation Club was hope working as a peer I worked in harm reduction so I’ve taken these trainings on harm reduction taking these trains to become a peer it really changed my outlook on a lot and then I’m sitting there working watching maintenance keep people clean right or sober whatever keep people in recovery whatever words you want to use right and um so that’s what really changed my mind it wasn’t the meetings it was me evolving to the new age of things going on nowadays well and thinking about it if I walked into a a meeting for the first time today and they were there was you know peripheral judgment or attitude towards a certain type of person doesn’t matter if they’re on mats not on mats doesn’t even matter if I see that this is an environment where when people aren’t around we talk bad about them I am no longer going to feel safe to share any of my [  ] because I don’t know where the line is right I know there is a line I know there’s a judgment and a shaming going on and I don’t want to [  ] cross it so now I better behave and keep all my secrets to myself and stay sick yeah I don’t know for me because I’m you know this is my first time in recovery at 37 years old um and I’m coming up on nine months clean and I dove head first into this stuff man and it’s it’s really all I have I’m really passionate about it um so for me it wasn’t even so much the programs themselves when it comes to like other fellowships and like you know 12-step programs you know because for me and the way that I’ve been working them into my recovery they are infallible the program itself is infallible it has brought me to a more of a conscious contact with a higher power of my understanding and it’s able to work through me the more that I let go of my will and surrender to the process for myself it’s more you know humans are fallible you know so like to see I know I know what it’s like and feels like to be extremely vulnerable to not know who I am early in recovery without the use of substances and trying to do my best every day to figure that out so community you know and like the social aspect of recovery is extremely important or at least what’s extremely important for me early on I’m gonna scan the room with my attic brain I’m going to read human beings with my attic brain I’m gonna overthink and over analyze with my attic brain and see where do I fit in this so like when those kinds of like things we’re talking about like that that whether it’s quiet shaming shunning judging or straight up out loud like you know like Savage with it you know the meeting after the meeting and whispering and whatever you know like you were just mentioning that that feeling like you know somebody’s being talked about like that when they’re not around like that is extremely have has an extreme effect obviously like in my opinion especially on individuals early in recovery especially somebody like me I’m somewhat younger but I’m also young in the sense that I’m new to this you know it’s my first go-around like if I felt like I feel like if I was focus more on that than I was on the things that I was blessed enough to be able to stay focused on to build that strength to be like well I don’t care what they think you know then I it could easily I could see how it could easily Chase somebody out for real and I think I’m I’m thankful that all paths was where it was at when I came in because I think that helped it helped with that you know I had to learn because I thought it was actually just the name of a home group I did I had the old person to actually realized oh okay

it is so blessed it’s crazy man nothing I don’t know there are no coincidences in my opinion that when I came in you guys were you know at the stage you guys were at and I was able to jump in and just be of service and do whatever I could be a part of it you know [Music] thank you

you mind if we read them yeah yeah see that mission statement over there let’s sure here so our mission is uh we the community of all paths respect any person’s experiencing recovery from addiction offering all a safe and welcoming non-judgmental environment that Fosters self-development and well-being striving to educate each other about all resources and skills available to help ensure lifelong success and Recovery recognizing those whose voices need to be heard and advocating for every individual’s right to their own path in recovery that’s awesome how did you guys um like modify the steps or did you modify them to put different words and I’m curious about that um I know for me uh religion was a hard thing for me coming into this so I kind of took all the word god out okay um everything is very similar it’s very modeled on the 12 Steps okay um he can read them if you would like because my reading skills ain’t that amazing right I can’t read um what we’re going to do is Step work on these we’re going to use another programs kind of thing a smart recovery okay which goes on your conjugal thinking so we’re trying to put together like work because they go off worksheets like you do worksheets so we’re trying to put worksheets to each one of these steps gotcha so not only do you have your normal step work you’ve got this other conjugal thinking so you’re diving in just a little bit deeper than you normally would right right so like what is what is uh what does step three say when when it says God where’d you guys put in there

everything assume a mindset of Goodwill seek the wisdom of responsible others and discover our true voice from within okay that yeah there is a mentorship to it as well and then now what made you guys decide to go with the the idea of like the and did you call it like a big brother little big sister kind of thing earlier yeah like the mentor or calling it more of a big brother or sister thing like what made you use that terminology over sponsor more of the hierarchy okay um because you think of your brother you think of a sibling right someone on a Level Playing Field that may know I have a little bit more knowledge but they’re not on that hierarchy like I’m not your boss I’m not sure like I I can’t I don’t sit there and tell you what to do I guide you what to do versus telling you this is what you have to do yeah I got it when you said it earlier it was like yeah I could see why they would change that like even in the therapy world there’s therapists that are really uncomfortable calling themselves like I’m the therapist you’re the client right so we kind of like we’re fellow Travelers right we’re we’re all just humans man we’re all just trying to like figure it out I could sit in a therapy chair and I’m also trying to figure out why the [  ] I yelled at my kids last night and like while I’m working with other people so yeah I like that I like this idea of like do you guys celebrate time because I feel like that’s another thing that kind of can at least in the traditional way that’s well that’s a hierarchy what we usually do um recovery time we we give you a clap for first six I mean first year and when you get to a year we have all past hoodies they say all passed down the sleeve and got to use you can get your name on it he’s got our our logo on the back of it so you get those things when you get to a year um so we do pretty traditional celebration at a meeting too yeah you do cake like they come in they tell a story like it’s pretty traditional because I know I know that’s I always like seeing celebration yeah so I gotta work online coming up the 24th oh that’s awesome man eight years how do you feel like like you you address the word sponsor in the the literature to make sure that feels a little less authoritarian or less like classist how do you address that with the recovery time idea because I feel like that’s another place in our 12 steps where oh that guy’s got 20 years he obviously knows more than me or we should all default to his knowledge or is there any way to kind of mitigate that we really don’t really get into that like um we do require a year or more to be a big brother okay um so and do you have you mentioned before that they need to have worked through some steps yes okay I thought I just yes um been through steps required what the end goal here is to have multiple Pathways like yes we have 12 steps right but I would love to have another pathway also like branches off of other things it’s like smart recovery so you have options like this is the path I want to go so you have more than just the 12 steps to work with this is optional yeah we don’t this ain’t mandatory like this is if you want them they’re here like we don’t read them at our meetings but we do have them so maybe what um and I don’t know how to to like put this into a vocabulary word because I don’t know if one exists but the experience of coming into an all-pass meeting obviously gave Jenny a very different feeling than what she’s used to getting walking into these other types of meetings what do you think it is that is going on in your meeting that has this different feel or that brings this different vibe to the recovery atmosphere for one it’s the community because we’re a very strong Community like I said we do a lot of things outside of our meetings like we’re very strong we try to get everybody involved with everything um we do not have no judgment so when you’re at our meeting you’re having discussions like me and you are like all of us are right now this is how we run our meetings you now if you go to your official meeting you share once and then you know like here you have a discussion like you can go back and forth and have full-blown conversations it seems tough with 50 people though it does but that’s where the facilitator because we do facilitator we try to facilitate armies with two people that way we can kind of divert and keep things into a positive because we also wanted to be in a positive manner um because we don’t want Dubai all your Pathways wrong like so we kind of throw blockers in there as soon as those things start to happen because it does happen because not everybody is on the same page right right people just coming in right so we if somebody comes in I like to feel like I’m pretty educated so Stephen so’s Angelo like we’re all pretty educated on all Pathways with me working in harm reduction I’ve seen a lot of Pathways yeah that’s what it’s a bit about ever more data and information being introduced like even sometimes having those hard conversations like so like when we thought about doing this and sat down and it was like you know like I remember you came to me and you were talking about like man you know maybe this and that about traditions and steps of our own but then there was also like what you know questioning it like I don’t know if I want to or not some of us expressed that they’re like it’s not really my thing and then I remember I said to you and you were like huh you thought on it and I was like well you know we should at least try to try to take a whack at it and offer it you know because if we’re gonna if it’s gonna be all paths we’re not all paths except 12 steps right you know so if we’re really going to be genuine about this all paths then why not at least try it and try to offer it as well you know for me coming into those meetings like I’ve seen some pretty staunch stuck in their ways dinosaurs as they call them come into our meetings and drop their little knowledge bombs and it be receptive you know they’re not be you know everybody hair down and like getting down to nitty-gritty I’ve been to some all past meetings before where it was straight we’re having logical rational debates and getting really into some for lack of a better term uncomfortable situations uncomfortable topics uncomfortable you know um subjects involving recovery and involving like you know these changes that we’re talking about that are here they’re not going anywhere you know especially when it comes to the drugs man that are out now like that’s the number one biggest one for me and I like how you talked about with the harm reduction because that’s really what should be the main reason you kind of took the words oil past started is just a harm reduction approach to recovery and and we’ve kept that core in there but we’ve also added this and we’ve added that and tinkered with this and uh it’s just there’s been mention of well just about everything this area has to offer at one at least one of if not several of our meetings so I’ve like I know I’d share one that’s a day meeting and I’ve spoke I’ve touched on like Dharma recovery style stuff and Taoist philosophy on at the meeting that I chair um I’ve heard you know we’ve had speakers come from uh from smart um and celebrate we’ve we’ve done stuff with people from celebrating at the hikes you know which those hikes are awesome because it basically it gets to be something where we’re somewhere in nature people are free to kind of like do what they want but at the same time everybody kind of like for the most part sticks together in a little like you know moving it’s like a moving meeting you know is what it becomes like the guy will like say right before we start the hike like okay so you know I want you guys to like brainstorm and talk with whoever you’re walking with as we do this hike and be like you know be like so think of something you’ve accomplished since being in recovery is a goal something that you’re focused on trying to accomplish short term as a goal and something you’re focused on trying to accomplish long term as a goal and by the time we get back at the end of the hike you know see if everybody has shared about it yeah so it’s really cool that’s awesome I think definitely from what I’m hearing like some of the things that are are to your advantage and that are working well for you guys is like this smaller close-knit Community right you don’t have to worry about the the all-pass members in California just yet right it’s it’s right here and people know each other and that’s working really well and there’s connection and there’s there’s more connection through this like hiking idea and you’re coming up with like the idea of uh you know going out to to help take care of people I think a challenging piece to that as you guys grow and one of the the other pieces that I’ve seen is an advantage so far just this idea that like you’re new and not stuck to any idea you’re not married to anything you guys are like hey let’s try some [  ] out well after three months ah that piece is kind of not doing it let’s just cut that out we’ll move this way and like that feels that just feels so much easier right we don’t have to get it right right now we can just trash it it’s okay and uh I think maybe some of the challenging things that might come as you guys are moving forward and at least what I was thinking like we’ve talked about the idea of fidelity like how do you keep Fidelity or or the sameness across the program right like I could do three group therapy sessions and give those people pretty much the same treatment but then if more people want that treatment well now I gotta hire people and train them and then hope that they’re doing the same thing I’m doing right and I guess what I was thinking of was like what happens when the person who’s educated about the hikes and pointing stuff out isn’t around anymore or an area starts a meeting that they don’t have that or you know like are these built into the program or is just this general idea built into the program of like we do more than just come to a meeting because that might work that might be reproducible you know I don’t just thinking through these ideas um well what we usually do is we don’t have no point people like we’re all involved like that’s one like if I drop off right now these guys can pick up where I dropped off right those are one things that we do with we do stay very open with everything we got going on with them not secretive like we don’t all right this is my job this is what I’m going to do like I mean we do lean to our own little things that we do but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he can’t just jump in and do what I do right you know what I’m saying or he can’t just jump in and do what I do yeah I think that’s one of the benefits of it being that we like welcome ever more information knowledge and data it’s because it becomes this almost kind of like mutually arising Aid this like almost like spontaneous order it starts to like emerge that’s what has fascinating me about it too but there is still like there is that looseness of autonomy in a sense especially when it comes to the meetings I would say like per meeting you might experience something a little different but like there also is kind of like a template or like a like what would you call it like a code of conduct almost like yeah that’s what I wondered like did the meetings like to the facilitators have like a guidelines or any sort of directive like how to run a meeting that’s we we usually make them come to our meetings that means to even usually run um because we started the first one so we like to model that one and then we kind of let them come for like a couple weeks let them facilitate that meeting so we can see what they’re doing and then we turn them loose and I usually sneak in their attend those meetings to see how it’s going um because one thing I am finding is that we’re in a lot of treatment centers there’s not very many treatment centers in the area um we’re in Brantwood we’re New Beginnings uh out in Bel Air um Adam and Baltimore like we’re in a lot of treatment centers around and it seems like that’s been a a big go-to for their treatment centers yeah I imagine because medicated assisted treatment or any you know newer pathways are more open in the treatment Community now probably what 15 or 20 years ago it was absentence vase was it like if you were in the treatment center it was absence-based it was 12-step you know and that’s kind of the model and that sort of changed so there was a big I mean we’ve seen issues with recovery housing and stuff are falling into the same traps of like okay well what do you do with people that are on Suboxone or methadone should they be in the same house with someone that’s abstinence based it’s definitely a growing area you know because we do do a lot of stuff with recovery houses also and like we’re there’s a Recovery House in Aberdeen where I we just recently started working with and that their rules are very lenient um and I don’t know how it’s going to work for them yet but we’re trying to navigate help them navigate through that situation because it’s going to be a rough road because he’s cutting edge definitely they got mental health in the same house they got uh maintenance in the same house they got medical marijuana in the same house like so like this and they got 10 guys in this house so it’s definitely going to be a path that’s going to be so I don’t know how it’s going to play out but we’re definitely trying to navigate help them navigate through that situation and see what happens because I don’t at this point I don’t know what’s going to happen and you mentioned to me that the penalization process is like you know what quantifies a automatic discharge is actually even a little different yes in a very traditional recovery yes they um they can have relapses and stuff like that and they really take anybody that nobody else wants like that’s what’s really good about it is because they take somebody that’s right there there’s that line too right like is what I was talking about earlier where it’s like I’m me personally in my view I’m asking it so it’s interesting that you know I mean like sometimes people get confused when they see how involved in this I am right because they know they see me in certain other rooms they see me active in those rooms for my recovery right and for that there’s for there’s communities you know I’m very passionate about it as well but then I’m still over here doing what I’m doing and there’s that line again man like there’s some people that’ll be like what an individual relapses and doesn’t get automatically kicked out like that’s very like we’re getting into some stuff here man you know which I do believe like the harm reduction thing does work I’ve seen it I’ve worked for voices I heard for almost two years I’ve seen it there’s been people Prime examples sitting beside me that was homeless in the so I don’t mean to put your story out the demon that was homeless in the woods he was homeless in the woods living in a tent me and this young man would walk down there and see him every week and and help him with his needs right for for his addiction and um eventually he came to us was like dude I’m ready and now I know I remember the day like it was yesterday so now he’s got nine months sober and doing amazing in this recovery thing part of a program that we helped start so it’s just amazing because I’ve seen the harm I’ve seen the harm reduction uh harm reduction approach work like I’ve seen it with my own very own eyes you’re making me think of like something that uh we don’t ten typically tend to picture is the early days of AAA or n a or 12 steps in general so like we talk about our service structure you know the service structure in 12 steps and it’s the upside down pyramid and the home group’s right at the top and blah blah blah but all that service structure was derived from a couple of guys saying all right these are the rules now I’m gonna let you guys be in charge at the level of the groups but the the rules were already established by a couple of people because I was just sitting here thinking like if you guys want to change your program is it like a vote amongst the people who come to all past no it’s these three guys and they’re figuring out what the [ __ ] they want to do but that’s probably how they all started yeah right you know what I mean somebody had to make up the committee right right right that’s what we’re mentioning to now um this is I’m talking long term now I’m not talking tomorrow I’m not talking next year but these are some of the goals that all pass does have um we are going to build a board we are going to start a non-profit because we gotta nobody even donate to us to help us with anything because we don’t have a tax ID number right so like we don’t make no money like you know we did do within this is how this is what I knew this was serious we did an event we did a five speaker five people speaker Jam I expected 30 people like we did it very very low budget we did it at my property quickly too yeah within a month like we planned it within a month um we ended up having over 100 people

from all Pathways because what we did is we found a speaker from n a a uh smart recovery like we did every little thing that we possibly could do from every program that we could find and it really went without a hitch like I couldn’t I couldn’t ask for anything about it like I was definitely amazed and that’s what I knew this was really bad I remember the the meeting right before we had it and I was like man I’m nervous I think anybody’s gonna show up we’re charging people to come to a barbecue like who does that and uh sure enough right right sure enough they came out hard they came out deep and showed support and uh I just want to say that I am thankful for everyone that attended That Barbecue I put a lot into perspective for me for you as well so let me know that

some of you especially like a couple of the speakers they they are they do not play they like their recovery is beast mode with years under their belt and they are definitely very for the most part set in stone members of of other fellowships but to see them there and to hear them share their experience strength and Hope you know and it didn’t I didn’t change a thing knowing where they were you know what the event was for it didn’t change a thing it you know it it put in perspective for me that this is more than just the reject maintenance meeting well it’s also fascinating it’s fascinating to think that like when I came around to 12 steps I remember hearing frequently this idea that like oh this is where the Misfits fit and like now it feels like we almost need other programs for the Misfits from that Community fit you know yeah I think that’s a thing in recovery like as I’ve grown in recovery and I guess my story is maybe a little different than what Jason would say like as I’ve been in recovery my idea of recovery has grown and changed within the 12-step Fellowship that I’m a part of so like you said like people going to the meeting and with the intention of walking out on that person like that’s totally shitty and I don’t think that represents the fellowship that I am a part of I think that’s a bunch of [  ] taking an idea and being a bunch of [  ] is what that is but to me that’s not representative of what I think you know the steps and traditions and that stuff are about but it’s taking some time to grow in that belief and it’s good you know to see like how do we get these different factions of recovery together to form a community you know we have this group that’s in this fellowship and this group that’s in this fellowship and this group that’s in this fellowship and we’ve spent a lot of time sort of like judging and poo pooing each other and they’re doing this wrong and they say this about us and we say that about them and you know that’s where you go if you want to get laid and this is where you go if you want to recover you know all that which one do you go to First I think that’s where that whole that principle over personality aspect could really be a Saving Grace you know what I mean because especially if we’re going to talk about Anonymous fellowships and the purpose behind it I mean it says it right there clear as day you know why anonymity is so important it’s not just about not mentioning that you saw a judge what’s his face in the meeting last night it’s about not putting my hands in Rippling the water you know principles my if I’m mucking up the message with my personality it’s gonna you know it’s gonna cause more harm than good so like it’s but at the same time I get it too like how can I so like say like I’ve had some pretty in-depth some deep conversations in the basement some people in recovery that are like well what do you think about you know these changing things like say for example we’re in Maryland right now and what recently happened with a particular particular narcotic you know that nobody’s ever died from we don’t really know what’s gonna happen in the future there’s some really experimental things happening with that particular substance but we do you know the undeniable numbers and science is there for its medicinal purposes you know but now like that’s not to say to some people I can think of off top my head that just don’t need to be walking in the stores and buying packs of tons of joints you know they could they could do without but like how can I sit here and just be like oh well now that means everything has to change you know like how can I expect something like say you know an anonymous Fellowship that has the word in their name to now be except like you know it’s just it’s not realistic I can also admit that you know so like that’s why I think something like this is perfect to fill that Gap [Music]

thank you well I think the debate gets to be what what do you define as recovery and because that’s such a personal decision for each person what recovery looks like is very personal to each person you know what I mean and and so that’s where it can get a little confusing and that’s another thing I can read this this literature right here you can read this literature right here that doesn’t mean we’re going to interpret it exactly the same so that’s everybody’s opinion is going to take effect in their in their recovery so and that’s another thing that I see is is something a vision is I don’t I want everybody to accept just because you go to AAA I still want you to be accepted in this being just because you go to n a or whatever your program may be like I want you accepted in this program I want to fill that void where there’s not there I’m better than you I’m I’m this that and this like it’s a common space for everybody it almost feels like it would leave a lot more space for like this is what I do maybe try it out instead of this is the right way and how recovery works I feel like there’s a lot of this is the way right in 12 steps unfortunately that you just mentioned happens a lot in these yeah a lot yeah people see some different versions of What recovery looks like and then say oh well maybe you know I can change a little bit or or tweak it a little bit like whatever I got to do to make this work for me like what can this do how can I make this work for me yeah yeah I’m just thinking about what you were saying Billy about the the challenge of like those people that were gonna walk out of the meeting aren’t the program or the meeting and like there’s actually cases where them amplifying the negative actually does good for the whole situation because then more other people step up and amplify the positive that maybe they wouldn’t have right so that’s not terrible but just thinking as we kind of Niche out in our population you know what I mean like we have the internet and now there’s people who can be into like you know I like watching bees [  ] flies or whatever they want to do on Saturday afternoons and then there’s a whole community of people like them and they’re not different anymore and they’re like oh yeah we’re the bees [  ] flies Community or on Saturdays or whatever like it was easy to say that one [  ] in the back of the meeting is just an [  ] right but when you can get a [  ] group of people to go to another meeting to walk out like at some point that just looks like the program whether it is or not right and it’s great that me and you can say that’s not really what the program is but what does it look like to everybody watching you know and at that point what help is it I don’t know I don’t know and I’m not trying to diss it especially those early like I was mentioning earlier especially those early in recovery man there’s a couple models that are sort of like this that I I’ve ran across like we’re not the we are the only all pass but there is a couple models because you do have more but they they concentrate on just like better just just a math program right they’re not they don’t accept everybody gotcha and that’s one thing that we really when we sat down and did this literature you know we really worked hard on this because we got full out readings just like a full meeting this is like an average meeting we got full out readings closing all those things and like we really wanted to concentrate it on Unity because I don’t know one person that can recover by their self yeah I think that recovery Cafe does something similar but they’re more like a community organization yeah they’re not like a fellowship so they’re a little different but the idea is kind of similar but they’re I think like a non-profit you know organization that I think they just Foster meetings they’re not like having and cheering their own meetings yeah all right so I’m thinking about coming to an all-pass meeting because you know why not right I mean Jenny sold it yeah yeah I’m like when’s the next meeting but but you might make or break it on this next question I just wanted to say quickly okay um I am you know I’m not condoning walking out on somebody’s meeting or anything but but I am super grateful for them doing that because that’s when you really was like man I’m in here let’s let’s do this and we buckled down and we really made this a thing um it’s a really shitty thing to do but a uh you know we just built this off of somebody else’s being shamed and things like that so yeah and and this person’s actually became a huge part of all past uh since she’s been around so um grateful for that as well she does a lot for us and with us you know there’s a there’s a quote from the Bible um that no weapon formed against me shall prosper or some [  ] like that right like I’m not a Bible guy I’m not even Christian but that idea that if I can stay in the right calm peaceful place inside my body things don’t feel like they’re happening to me or against me like if I can just hold on long enough everything works out to my benefit I just gotta wait for the moment when the benefits come from it yeah and unfortunately the truth is if you go to enough meetings if they’re not talking about what you’re using or if you relapse it’s going to be who you’re sleeping with or what you do at your job or what you do here so I mean judgmental people are going to be judgmental about whatever the [  ] they want to be judgmental about you know that’s more of a personality defect I was just thinking it isn’t being addressed maybe if us five went to a meeting right now [  ] I’d do it say we went to a meeting tonight we’re like we’re gonna go to the Sunday night uh uh hang for in the ceiling meeting or whatever right and you go in there and everybody’s getting Spears put through them and people are hanging from the ceiling from their skin and stuff like I don’t know about you guys that’s not my thing some people it is that’s cool that would be their meeting right but I would be like holy [  ] that’s not 12 steps or that’s not an n a program but if that was our first meme what the [  ] would we be thinking right that’s not how I want to recover so it’s just like yeah how do we mitigate that in a world where there unfortunately are it’s not just one crazy guy in the back right and I guess we have more accepting spaces right oh I want to go back important question of whether I’m going to come or not yeah yeah do you guys discourage people from getting in relationships in the first

curious we don’t have to don’t have to accept rules yet all right

that doesn’t mean we’re all giving handies under the table I mean you might pick up your tendency

um what do you feel like courage relationships everybody should hook up on their first night out of rehab God damn it um what do you what do you guys feel like makes the difference what makes you feel at home here is it is it really just this comfortable Vibe of acceptance everywhere is that what okay because um I don’t feel like I have to and I’m not bashing no other Fellowship because obviously I’ve worked in other fellowship and it worked for me like it definitely worked for me like I’m sober like you work for me right and I got a little time under my belt I ain’t got decades but I got a few I got a few years under my belt so it definitely worked for me but um I guess the family aspect like I’ve never went to a meeting and walked outside and still stood there for an hour and a half talking like you know like not everybody don’t leave the meeting like dude right out the door like so we just like the family aspect and the conversations I feel like I get to know know you better because we’re debating versus you just sharing your story or sharing a bit about what’s going on in your life like we’re actually debating so I get to know your points of multiple things yeah we talk about relationships we talk we talk about codependency like we got several different topics that we use as a model to open those doors to where you’re comfortable that’s interesting I feel like when I got introduced to uh my my program was generally Narcotics Anonymous I got introduced in the late 90s and it felt a lot like that honestly back then it felt like we would stand around easily for an hour after the meeting and have conversations or we were going somewhere to get coffee or food and like it does seem like over time and I don’t know if that’s just too many people or what has happened but it does feel like it’s kind of moved away and everybody just wants to get back to the home after the meeting I think also talking about bigger changes technology being introduced to our world right people got stuff to do I got to go home and do this thing on my phone or go home and watch that show on Netflix waiting yeah yeah so like maybe maybe some of that has influenced it as well but but I like the idea of this smaller more close-knit thing and it it’s interesting that we talk all the time like what makes recovery work and they’re like the thing that feels great about this is like connection Family Safety right like not feeling like I’m going to be judged at any given moment and I too is attractive you know the fact that it’s a brain child for lack of a better term I I like the fact that I can I can be my real authentic self and people love me for it you know I don’t I don’t have to go in there and be fake and if I had a bad day I’m gonna let you all hear about it you know they and everybody is going to receive that and and they’ll give me feedback on just how to proceed or or whatever the case may be but just for me to be able to come in there and be real and um be accepted for being myself I’ve I’ve [  ] love it you know that’s a good point with the feedback too because the average all pads meaning that I find myself attending there is a mix you know like I was saying earlier about it you know it’s more that in-depth realization it was more than just you know the reject maintenance meeting you know because there is a big there’s it’s not just that even when you’re in the meeting they’re reclining like like I said I myself personally work in abstinence program I’m very serious about that for me because I’m I’m you know learning more every day the type of addict that I am the way this addiction Works in my brain I just can’t I have to be asking it you know so I think Stephen you’ve kind of mentioned this is like you’re I’m gonna say only recovery program right like this is what you do for your recovery do you do both fellowships Angela or do you just do the one or how’s that work so yeah thank you yeah you’re in all okay so it can work either way it can be it’s Standalone thing or it can be like a complimentary to and see that’s another thing I don’t want to ever insinuate or try to force like because I’d like that people work double programs because you may get something from this program that you may not get from the other one you may get something from the other one that you’re not getting from this one like I I don’t feel like closed-minded helps you recover and to be honest with you like I think a lot of people really recognize this is because we get so much recognition from the community like we got so many people like which has been a huge supporter Mary Randall’s been a huge supporter The Help Center is a huge supporter like we got all these big organizations without throughout the county that are huge supporters and serenity that that’s the local Clinic like that woman’s blessed us more than anything like she’s really stepped up she’s got us in two of her buildings like and she even they got to attend groups when they use her facility like her her program right we sign off on their slips nice so so it’s like she really thinks this is going to do something for them right right I’m curious about this and I’m just kind of trying to figure it out for Narcotics Anonymous too I’m not sure I really know so Narcotics Anonymous literature says you’re a member when you say you are so all it takes for membership is to say you’re a member and then you’re an n a member but then we also have a special rule about what is abstinence which I don’t know why we need it even because you don’t need to be abstinent to be a member so I was really just getting confused I was like why do we even have a why do we have a definition of abstinence what’s the point so we don’t it’s not a written rule of abstinence that was like a public service statement to try to address within recovery uh centers recovery organizations like what we what I can’t say we what Narcotics Anonymous would Define as abstinence base versus what they would consider not and that statement was put out mostly to keep people from coming in with bad information like it and not say bad information that’s the wrong way to say that but they didn’t want people at methadone clinics telling people hey go to n a you’re clean when you go there and then them get there and not get a warm reception and so Narcotics Anonymous put out a statement that says hey we don’t have an opinion on this whether it works or not is bulletin 29 I think is what it’s called but that wasn’t like a general piece of literature that was released to the entire Fellowship it was like a public bulletin that was put out more for medical treatment purposes to so it wasn’t like uh yeah it wasn’t like meant to be something that’s like read in meetings or pushed as an ideology well I was thinking more just within the fellowship itself because the question I wanted to ask them was are there any specific rules that you have to follow to be recovering according to your program and the more I thought about it I was like but why would they have it because they’re going to say the only requirement for membership is a desire to be here and why do we even need rules about if you’re in recovery or not and I was wondering why are why Narcotics Anonymous the fellowship the people me and you like why the [  ] were we so hung up on the definition of abstinence when it really has nothing to do with everything yeah and individual meetings do what they want I mean so you can be I mean you’re still a member if you relapse or you’re still a member if you’re actively using that doesn’t mean you’re not a member of the fellowship right which is why I don’t know why we’re hung up on whether people are abstinent or not anyway because it really has no bearing on anything our slogan you remember who gives a [  ] if you’re absent or not that’s my [  ] so that’s the ideally that’s where people should be yeah I mean that’s what I think where did we go wrong why aren’t we there um I guess for like that Unity versus the personal comes into play too you know because it’s like it talks about you know the only way that the individual’s personal recovery can be guaranteed is through that Unity right right so like that’s what I guess it gets down to where I was talking about earlier where it’s like yeah that might be my perspective like I don’t consider myself clean unless I’m doing the best I can to work in absent program complete abstinence from all drugs but like at the same time I’m just a [  ] junkie so who am I to tell anybody else that that’s what they have to do or they’re not doing what I’m doing so we had a speaker that’s speaker Jam that we was speaking of that I spoke about um and he has multiple dates he calls them recovery dates he has multiple dates throughout his timeline when he shares his story he tells like this is when I stopped doing this I started doing this and it shows like a timeline of his recovery right and we have our slogan is you’re in recovery when you say you are because who am I to determine what your recovery looks like right right yeah I guess we as people with wanting to follow the rules of kind of decided it’s our job to police everybody else’s cleanness or abstinence there’s weird benefits to both like so I can see the purpose of being at a meeting that’s specifically addresses like addiction you know a meeting that specifically addresses alcoholism if you think that’s a different thing or not that’s again an opinion a meeting that specifically addresses gambling a meeting that specifically addresses sex or you know love like we have all those different fellowships and there’s a great I think need for that if you’re caught up with that particular issue because those people are going to relate to what you’re talking about they’re going to know the intimacies of the struggles with some of that stuff whereas I might not understand the intimacies of the issues around gambling I’m I don’t gamble I’ve done it a few times I lose money I get pissed off and I’m like this is [  ] stupid like I don’t know how anybody would like this but people obviously struggle with that and it’s a huge issue so you know to me going to that meeting wouldn’t be of benefit but a meeting that sort of addresses all those I think has a purpose too see that’s another thing with the big brother thing just because you’re comfortable like I say we’re at a meeting and you’re struggling with something and I share on something and you realize and you’re Stephen’s your big brother right we’ll say Steven’s his big brother and you shall I share on something you realize that you have a problem with I want you to feel comfortable coming to me and be able to to specifically talk to me because you know that I’ve been through that situation versus oh that’s my sponsor I got to go talk to him right about this situation I want to be like a like a group of people right right just because when you have a situation doesn’t mean your sponsor knows absolutely everything that you’re going through or how to handle it better than somebody else would right so it’s like I just like a big brother can be anybody in the organization that’s willing to do so yeah there’s that there’s that that’s where that Melting Pot comes into play right with the ever more knowledge and data and like really bringing it in and I wouldn’t say that that’s not necessarily existent or non-existent in other fellowships I know and the one that that I’m a member of um you know I’ve heard it put that way where it’s like okay if I’m uh you know if I’m a man if I’m a married man and I’m struggling in my marriage I’m not gonna go seek out a single man to talk to about it um

married women maybe they’ll keep their secrets better like it’s going to be suggested by my sponsor and that Fellowship like well if you know if they have have a brain and they’re trying to actually do what they should be doing and instill something in me they’re gonna be like obviously don’t go talk to the the single guy after the meeting and you’re not don’t make it you know I mean not he can be in your network but you’re not going to get much out of him in the sense of a struggling married man that’s that’s having some marital problems you know so so there are stuff like that that is there but that’s I feel like it’s unspoken it doesn’t really get nobody just like opens that can of worms and like comes outward about it in all past meetings is definitely is there like you know that Melting Pot of like well actually you know it’s funny you say that because this is our topic today you know and everybody comes in I studied a lot of fellowships before I I really got in I’ve been to celebrate recovery um they got a very close model to this called harm reduction works it’s up that based on man uh Massachusetts it’s very small kind of just like started out like we did but they’re more they do more zoom meetings than anything I study tomorrow like I I’ve I still study a lot of different Pathways psychedelics like we got people coming to our meetings that don’t that it is their pathway they micro dose and do those things yeah and assisted therapy where there’s an like a clinician set in and everything recently I’ve been looking at the Academy therapy like it’s just like a lot of different paths that I really want to get into right I mean maybe not as far as Fellowship right right but as far as knowledge because the more knowledge that I have on anything out there better off I am and I think it really comes to a lot because there’s a lot of peers involved with this there’s a lot like most of our meetings are very I won’t say all like there’s a few of our meetings at a ran by peers there’s a lot of peers that are involved with with this Fellowship a lot of absent in space recovery individuals that volunteer too I mean so I just be honest like as an abstinence person like my immediate hang up I guess fear is it I worry it would make using appealing in a way that I don’t like I know I’m not above using you know what I mean like I know I’m not above it at all and like recently I’ve had some people that I know that have decided to do you know marijuana and different stuff and I’m like that turns on [ __ ] in my brain you know that’s like I don’t want to say triggering but it’s like gets me thinking oh maybe I could do that now maybe that would be okay and and that’s like a fear but you said you guys addressed that some or at least try to acknowledge that yeah somebody’s struggling with that like I me personally like I was tossing the idea because I’m getting ready to celebrate five years in December that was a good discussion so we went into like we was in a meeting like we had a whole discussion about it like the whole group gave me feedback not what they thought I should do I wasn’t there was I nope no you need it you needed my feet give you his feedback right now

this is a good meeting it was a really good meeting because it gave me a lot of different people’s albums not their opinions was there any medical cannabis pieces yes like it was it was it was a half and half really like it was a really good conversation because I got a lot of insight on what could happen from both angles and like I ultimately had to make my own decision like you know what I mean right and like it’s just one of those things that because I figured if I went five years why would I want to change my pathway now but I don’t want to also I know I don’t want to go on Dr meds because like those are things all reality of some people’s lives like so I have ADHD like a [  ] I have uh anxiety PTSD things like that um so I use medical cannabis as an alternative to psych meds I don’t like how psych meds make me feel they turn me to a different person water me down whatever you want to call it so I found that medical cannabis helps tremendously with all these things and I’m a huge advocate for medical cannabis I’m a huge just I just really am passionate about that and and what it does for my mental health so I just want to throw that out there I’m glad you did because I literally agree with Ole Miss everywhere you just said as far as like advocating and understanding that the science isn’t really going anywhere now anytime soon but at the same time I know that I can yeah it’s not for everybody not for everybody but like I still who who you know I nobody to be like well [  ] that science right because it’s there and it’s not going anywhere you know guys keep an eye on time we’re uh we’re getting close here um really want to make sure we people know how to get here right like obviously this is a local thing at the moment so I guess question one is if you’re around the Maryland area where these meetings might be how do you find out more because we have a Facebook group perfect the guy has almost 600 members um that we’ve actively post all of our events 24 hours but a lot of hours of support if needed right right because somebody always goes right on there and addresses any issues as far as because we got like six seven moderators that take care of that group and we try to there’s a lot of peers if somebody’s struggling they reach out like boom we’re on it so we do have Facebook um oh somebody will have that Facebook link underneath this episode you can just go down and click on the little link question for members who aren’t in Maryland who this sounds like something they want maybe they were just at a meeting where a group of people came just to walk out and they heard about it and ain’t feeling real good about it how would they go about starting one of their own or getting in touch with used to get the the basics of like what is this foundation so we can start I do have all um email it’s all past recovery okay uh Gmail awesome so they can email that or once again the Facebook is that all one word yes all lowercase all password coverage yeah um and once again the Facebook is very active awesome because it goes right to my phone I only have a personal Facebook it goes right to my phone everybody thinks he’s just yeah that’s my name is my name’s all and I’m an addict but I do want to read this closing because this closing is very important to our recovery okay but how would you introduce yourself to read that in a meeting hi my name’s well we don’t we introduce ourselves at the beginning of the meeting everybody everybody how do they do it um hi my name is Matt I’m in recovery um my my pathway is abscess uh do you have to say your pathway you don’t have to absolutely I I’m I just say I’m Steve medical cannabis that’s okay and the reason for that right let’s say once again you’re having those ideas of maybe switching your pathway we want you to know that’s his pathway and he’s comfortable in his pathway right so that way you can go get his feedback on that pathway got it got it so here hit us with the clothes you always say like you know if everyone’s comfortable yeah you don’t you don’t necessarily they say anything yeah all right so these includes tend to be closing statements at the meetings Rock Bottom became the foundation of our new beginning for a chance to build to be better than any time before so from this print on we will look forward because things will get better things may seem cloudy now but the storm always moves forward just as we should not saying it is easy but well worth the wait you weren’t created to live feeling shamed depressed or unworthy one of the hardest things to learn is that you are worth your recovery there is no right way or wrong way for your path as long as you do not stop it is not a race so do not feel guilt if it is taking longer than you thought you don’t get over an addiction by stopping using you recover by creating a life where it’s easier not to use a life where you learn to recover without living the life you once knew man that is beautiful and just what you guys are doing for the community right we can come on here we can talk about it we can have a lot of fun on a Sunday morning but truthfully like you guys are taking your time dedication and spirits and and putting it into a thing to try to make for a more rich and full community and a place where people can come when they felt the ways we’ve all felt at the bottom right right and so like thank you for that because we need more and more of that I appreciate it and I want to say I think what’s making it successful is that it’s built on this idea of like compassion and love for other people regardless of judgment and stuff and that’s I think what the foundation of any recovery path for anybody should be and it’s a shame that it isn’t that in all the pathways so thank you for being there yes you look out the right people yeah a lot of the past like AAA for example was 1930 something so like

official Fellowship there was meetings and stuff before that okay so like that’s all sort of kind of like this yeah yeah that’s all like people long-term recovery like none doesn’t bashing anybody in long-term recovery because I graduate all every single one of them yeah um they had this X type of drug nowadays they don’t have an external drug like now things are harder to get off of things are because not only light was used to heroin Supply around here because once again I would lose hope and what do you do have a ride program and we do test all the drugs I’ve been there for two years I haven’t seen heroin so so now not only did they detoxing from what they call Fentanyl you’re the size of the xylazine I can’t pronounce the word but it’s in there also which is a tranquilizer so now you’re detoxing off two two things at one time yeah which makes things a lot harder and sometimes even some of the maintenance doesn’t even work right right and when you go back the the number is ridiculous some like hundredths of a percentile chance that but fall back that usually won’t survive it’s crazy I was gonna say I’m just always a person it’s like the more the merrier like the more options of recovery we have for people the better it’s like you’re gonna catch you know more people are gonna get help more opportunities are going to be available more people are going to find a place that they feel loved and accepted and appreciated and that’s I think the best approach to addiction at this point 100 I think Billy just gave your motto too it’d be something like uh something like uh all pairs of recovery should include love compassion and acceptance but if you’re finding yours doesn’t then come to All Pets well see that’s I don’t want to I don’t want to read I don’t want to redirect anybody from their pathway right right because if you’re comfortable where you’re at like I’d love for you to stay there because I don’t want to see I don’t I don’t want the alternative just because we’re doing something doesn’t mean I didn’t want everybody to come to it but we’re here and see I finally come to that point about my path of recovery too like I just don’t I just don’t I don’t want to change nobody where it could be harmful for you right right so I even have to approach sometimes and this is like a lot of people don’t like this approach like I don’t care if you’re on X drug and you switch to this drug as long as it’s an improvement of your lifestyle I support it right right and keep going and take your time and then eventually you’re going to go do this next step or your stage of your life and like I support all those dangers as long as you’re moving in a forward motion right right so go out there think about your pathway guys think about if it has the love acceptance and compassion you think you’re looking for in the world uh maybe if all pets sounded like something that that you might touch your spirit uh look them up you can check the Facebook link out you can email them and talk to them if you want to know more personally and uh stay safe out there and we’ll see you next week [Music]

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